Customer Reviews (4)

An important contribution to Quality
This book is an excellent compilation of on-line discussions which occurred in the late 1990's regarding the Metaphysics of Quality.The discussions themselves are a joy to read, but Pirsig's annotations and comments make this an absolute must for anyone deeply interested in the philosophical system of thought called the Metaphysics of Quality.The contributors bring up and discuss many of the problems and difficulties lesser philosophers than Pirsig, such as myself, have had with the MOQ.Pirsig's clarifications and notes go a long way toward solving many of these problems.

This book is no Pirsig "lovefest." Dissenters abound in the discussions, many of whom are quite intelligent and learned.Pirsig's well-reasoned responses to the best dissenters provide some of the book's greatest insights.

By integrating the age-old wisdom of the most enlightened Buddhist and mystic philosophers into a rational, scientific, metaphysical framework, the Metaphysics of Quality may be the greatest intellectual achievement of the 20th century.Lila's Child, the third in the trilogy started by Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance and Lila, is an important work to help integrate this achievement into our intellectual culture.

Lila's Child
Any book project that concerns itself with the challenging matters of philosophy is doomed if nearly all its contributors lack the proper background in philosophy or cannot translate thought to word with high fidelity. Such is the case with Lila's Child. Its writings were never intended to be published, and it shows. This is so plainly evident that Robert Pirsig himself makes a half-hearted attempt at damage control in his introduction, not exactly countering the notion that the book is awful, but to argue that it's more interesting that way.

Even if it were interesting, why someone would pay good money to read these postings as a book instead of for free over the internet...is hard to understand, unless the notes Pirsig adds makes them worth it. And quality annotations would be highly valued by anyone interested in the Metaphysics of Quality (MOQ) - Pirsig's muddled, re-packaged form of idealism that could dearly use some clarity. But Pirsig mostly misses this opportunity and manages only a scant clarification here and there, such as when he expresses his desire to reverse the impression left in Lila that all moral issues can be solved with his system, or when he categorically states that only people, and not animals, are social patterns of value under the MOQ.

A typical notation of Pirsig's consists of one or two clipped sentences that do little or nothing to further understanding, except perhaps in the overactive imagination of some readers, and on a couple of occasions he appears distressingly detached from his own ideas, such as when he makes a statement that is prefaced by the qualifier, 'If I understand the MOQ properly,...'.

The book does manage to capture some of the excitement of a crusading bunch who are under the illusion that Pirsig's ideas will change the world, although it becomes exasperatingly apparent that no two people can exactly agree to what those ideas are, or how they should be applied. One contributor, Doug Renselle, went on to invent Quantonics, an offshoot of the MOQ that is a worthy addition to the burgeoning field of psychoceramics.

Dan Glover does a serviceable job of rearranging the posts to make them more readable, and Struan Hellier makes some incisive comments, but beyond that the book is notable only for its confusions, illogic, and philosophical stabs in the dark.

Engaging and Illuminating
I read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert Pirsig as an assignment in high school about five years ago but didn't really see what all the fuss was about. About 3 months ago I came across Lila in a bookstore and bought it out of curiousity. I fell in love with it. Afterwards I bought a copy of Zen and read it again. This time I got much more out of it.I searched the Internet for more on Pirsig and found this wonderful book. I heartily recommend it to anyone interested in Quality.

A Unique & Important Work
Robert Pirsig stated in the 25th anniversary edition of "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" that he would not write a third book. This was a disappointment for Pirsig's legions of fans, including myself. Pirsig is an utterly unique thinker.

He made us wait over fifteen years before releasing the sequel to ZMM, a book called LILA, published in 1991. It was a much more intellectual book than ZMM, and therefore not as popular, but many people found its ideas utterly fascinating. A website was formed by a small group of intelligent folks who wanted a place on the internet to discuss LILA and philosophy. That was over six years ago. The website is still around (thanks Horse!) and the discussions continue. It is the only website endorsed by Pirsig himself (he mentions it in the 25th anniversary edition of ZMM).

LILA'S CHILD contains the first year's worth of discussions from the website, painstakingly compiled and superbly edited by Dan Glover. It is a fascinating repository of debate and discourse, and indispensable to current and future fans of Pirsig. Although he didn't directly participate in the original discussions, the entire book is annotated by Pirsig, who offers his personal insights on the topics of discussion, and (at some points) critiques the views of individual participants. His annotations contain new insights and personal opinions not found in ZMM or LILA. Here we have pure Pirsig.

LILA'S CHILD is a fitting and satisfying conclusion to the trilogy which began with ZMM and continued on with LILA. As with those two books, LILA'S CHILD is a book that can be picked up and read over and over again and new gems of insights discovered each time. Pirsig fans will not be disappointed. Thank you, Dan Glover, for making it happen. ... Read more

Book Description

Customer Reviews (2)

Nothing new then
Usually i wouldn't dream of writing a review on the web> Theres probably over a billion blogs online so why add more! But iv been forced to write this through disappointments and boredom.
Coffee with Plato is a good idea( A textbook on Plato but make it in interview form, so we hear Plato talk. And its better than many intros to the man. So four stars there then). And Mr Moore is a good prose stylist so its a very good read. I enjoyed reading it and learn t a few things about Mr Plato.
So here is my critique then... I bought the book because Robert Pirsig wrote the introduction. I'm a massive fan of Pirsig so i was expecting a few pages on philosophy. Robert Pirsig wrote a book called Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance, its a great piece where Pirsig offers a very original take on western philosophy and he has insights on the western platonic/Aristotelian mind that academics cant match etc etc (i cant sum up an idea in a review so i wont try). So i ordered this book expecting at least a few pages of philosophy.
But Pirsig (who i consider a man who came close to understanding enlightenment before he lost his mind...) has written just over a page!!! Nothing insightfully or profound, just a few words of nothingness. Maybe Mr Pirsig is a friend of the author so agreed to put his name on the cover to sell the book.
Anyway its a well written book. Pirsig fans should buy it as its his only written words this century! But don't expect anything original.

Nice little book
First of all, please disregard all of the hoopla of Pirsig's name being included in this book. Pirsig only wrote a 2 page introduction to the book, and it contains no new insights to his Metaphysics of Quality. It is simply a short introduction to Plato. So if you are a devoted follower to Pirsig, like I am, don't freak out and purchase this book, like I did.

That said, this is a nice little book on the very basics of Plato. Having read a majority of Plato's works, as well as 2 or 3 other introductions on the man, I found this book to be pleasant and somewhat refreshing. Donald R. Moor writes in extremely simple terms, and very clearly breaks Plato down. In fact, it is so simple, that it cleared up a few things that I had missed in reading on Plato previously. He also takes a few of the outstanding differences between Plato's thought and 21st century morality and puts them in perspective. So, the fact that you might find Plato's notion of killing all atheists reprehensible is cleared up a bit, by placing this notion into Plato's mindset on the world.

Essentially, if you are brand new to Plato, this will serve as a good introduction. Although it lacks the beauty of Plato's writing, it does give a very basic and simple framework from which to understand him. And for those who are familiar with Plato, it does serve to clear up some outstanding, if not subconscious, issues with him. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (71)

Metaphysics of Quality
Review of "Lila" by Robert Pirsig.

I loved this thought provoking story.

It is an impressive and engrossing book.

This book surpasses the intensity of "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" in scope and in the development of the author's concepts of quality and value.It is a daring exposition on objective valuation and it offers a broad appeal.Pirsig shows his metaphysics of quality works in real situations and for life changing decisions.

Open up, expand your consciousness, read and enjoy this book.

I recommend this book.

Great ideas, but don' t lose your head....
I loved this book. I found its analysis of societal values and modern history to be positively brilliant, and I have incorporated one of is main points, coined Dynamic vs. Static Quality as played out in various tensions of opposing values (in pirsigs taxonomy they are the intellectual, the social, and the intellectual), in my religious theory. His elaboration of the concept of value as the central reality echoes religious mystical traditions that I was aware of previously but did not takes seriously until Pirsig showed it to be relevant to practical reality.
However, upon rereading this book, I am disturbed by a number of points:
Foremost; I am disturbed by the narcissm of the author. While this his character might seem incidental to his philosophy, it is not. It allows him to take credit, with no attribution, for all ideas expressed as his own, when in fact many of them are rephrasings of ideas expressed by earlier individuals, and their brilliance lies not in the ideas themselves, but by the weaving together of multiple disparate ideas into a coherent tapestry.
On reread, I am also disturbed by the fictional format of the book; this format allows him to dispense with attribution, and absolves him of the responsibility of backing up his contentions with solid evidence. This does not mean they are right or wrong; what it does mean is that a layperson such as myself will have difficulty spotting an argument based on faulty evidence. It also allows him to misrepresent opposing viewpoints, such as his analysis of the practice of psychiatry. Perhaps this plays into his narcissm- in a fictional/memoir format he may play the expert to a lay readership in a way he could not do in a more scholarly format.
However, I must admit, that not being a scholar, it is unlikely that I would have encountered these ideas in a more scholarly format, so ultimately I am grateful for the semi-fictional format despite its faults.
And I was disturbed by one last thing, which I guess is marginal to the premise of the book, but I feel compelled to include: And that is the authors sexual practices and mores. Throughout the book he insists on categorizing sex as biological quality and nothing more, and his behavior reflects that. The idea that sex includes social, intellectual, and spiritual quality, and that our sexual choices include all these realms, never occurs to him. But I guess to me that says less about the quality of his thesis, than about the apparently poor quality of his sex life.

A great book, but don't expect "Motorcycle Maint - Part 2".
Of course it would be nearly impossible for him to live up to the first book, so I'll try not to compare it, but unfortunately I only bought this one because I liked "Zen" so much.It was a bit harder to get into, but Pirsig manages to bring up a very interesting topic for discussion, and analyzes it as only he can.It's not the same thing, but it's great work on it's own.

Lila
This book was ordered for my son.He is in the process of reading it.
Thank you for sending it so quickly!!

Creates a useful framework for thinking about one's life
Like Persig's earlier book 'Zen and the art of Motorcycle Maintenance' this book uses the same technique as Plato's dialogues to discuss philosophical ideas.

The basic idea in all three works is to use an actual event (like fixing a motorcycle) as an example to discuss a general principle of philosophy.I always found Plato strange because he argued that specific cases should be deduced from abstract principles, not the other way around (idealism) but used the opposite technique (nominalism) in his writings.At least Persig uses nominalist techniques to argue for a nominalist position.I interpret one of the previous reviews as saying that Persig should have used idealist techniques..............

'Zen...' asked deep questions, and sometimes said there was no definite answer.Seventeen years later, Persig thinks he has some new answers.I agree.I often find myself using the ideas he taught me, to understand myself and the world.What more could I ask? ... Read more

Amazon.com
Arguably one of the most profoundly important essays ever written on the nature and significance of "quality" and definitely a necessary anodyne to the consequences of a modern worldpathologically obsessed with quantity.Although set as a story of a cross-country trip on a motorcycle by a father and son, it is more nearly a journey through 2,000 years of Western philosophy. For some people, this has been a trulylife-changing book.Book Description

One of the most important and influential books written in the past half-century, Robert M. Pirsig's Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance is a powerful, moving, and penetrating examination of how we live . . . and a breathtaking meditation on how to live better. Here is the book that transformed a generation: an unforgettable narration of a summer motorcycle trip across America's Northwest, undertaken by a father and his young son. A story of love and fear -- of growth, discovery, and acceptance -- that becomes a profound personal and philosophical odyssey into life's fundamental questions, this uniquely exhilarating modern classic is both touching and transcendent, resonant with the myriad confusions of existence . . . and the small, essential triumphs that propel us forward.

Customer Reviews (511)

A true culture bearer
I have read this book 4 times first I read it was about 12 years back and I would say everytime I read it, it gave me a new perspective in life. It is a true work of philosophy brilliant and original.

Something which will make people like Ayn Rand's work seem immature in terms of applicability to real life no matter how logically consistent it may be in the narrowly defined system of logic of their own chosing.

The book really sucessfully points to the breach between romantic and classical view. In my humble opinion it is way too easy to define your set of rules and come up with logically consistent narrative but it is bound to be dogmatic. Just like work of Ayn Rand unfortunately I read pirsig before I read Rand and felt pukish when I read her work. Surprisingly many intellectuals of our times whom I admire admire her work. But I guess most would prefer the comfort of logical consistency and assumptions of knoweble and unknoweble.

If for nothing else read it for its historical significance it is still a best seller but it created an era may be created cult followings which Pirsig never intended to begin with and prompted some in the academic world to call it cocaine of contemporary philosophy. It is a true culture bearer a term used by the author himself about other book 'Uncle Tom's Cabin'.

Infuse your soul with Quality
Anybody who knows me well enough would say that this is exactly the type of book I would enjoy reading, being a blend of deep philosophy, the freedom of the open road and a spirit of adventure. And indeed, going even further, I was able to identify with both the narrator and with Phaedrus in several parts of the book, and saw various parts of my own personality and events in my life reflected in their characters and circumstances. Phaedrus, alone in his own universe, causing him to be someone who others do not always understand and who are sometimes frightened by him, when in fact he means no harm. Phaedrus who doesn't give a damn about what others think of him or being right in society's eyes as long as he knows he is right. Phaedrus, looking for meaning and purpose in life and being considered the insane one when in fact the ones doing the criticising are the ones in need of help. The narrator, going on a long drive across America as a form of therapy for the soul and a means of reflection about life and trying to determine what course his future should take and to excise some ghosts from the past.

One of the great strengths of this book is the ability of the author to present and link difficult concepts in a way that you can easily understand and which make sense. The book is heavy going in some places, but I can only imagine how much heavier going it would have been had a less skilled author tried to write it. To try and unite the concepts of ancient Greek philosophy, modern science, Eastern mysticism, and religion all into one coherent whole takes some doing, but Pirsig succeeds in this. Along the way philosophical concepts such as scientific materialism, idealism, sophism, logic, rhetoric etc. are also clearly discussed by the author, all within the underlying story of the book, together with arguments for or against these.

This book did not disappoint. In fact, the conclusions reached are quite astounding and certainly make sense. Yet I do feel that at times the way the author presents the practical application of Quality in one's life is a bit idealistic and too easy sounding. Just get interested in and value whatever you have to do and all will be fine! Even if it's fixing a motorcycle or balancing the books or picking up golf balls on a driving range ,or washing dishes. Mmm, don't think things are always quite as simple as that. But at least this is philosophy that can be applied to one's everyday life, and Pirsig makes a concerted effort to show readers how they can do so, especially so that they can live more fulfilled and meaningfully. Too often, philosophers and enlightened people are accused of being impractical dreamers whose beliefs do not address the realities of a harsh world. Not necessarily so with the ideas and concepts in this book.

So then, what is the underlying message of this book? Firstly, this is not a book about Zen Buddhist practice and nor is it a book about motorcycle maintenance. Rather, practical motorcycle maintenance is skillfully used by the author to illustrate various philosophical concepts he is thinking about during his trip (the title of this book, although strange sounding at first, was cleverly chosen by the author. I think that one of the reasons for the success of the book is its strange title. Had it been called, for example, "New Concepts in Modern Philosophy" etc. it is unlikely this book would have been the success it has been with the mass market, but that still wouldn't deter from its brilliance). Pirsig is saying that our way of dividing the world into subjects (mind/ consciousness) and objects is incorrect. There is a third entity which is independent of the two and which encompasses them: Quality, which is found in the relationship of the two with each other. It is the point at which the subject and object meet. Quality is not a thing, it is an event. It is the event at which the subject becomes aware of the object. And because without objects there can be no subject - because the objects create the subject's awareness of himself - Quality is the event at which awareness of both subjects and objects is made possible. However, it is not just the result of a collision between subject and object. The very existence of subjects and objects themselves is deduced from the Quality event. The Quality event is the cause of subjects and objects, which are then mistakenly presumed to be the cause of the Quality! While in the process of coming to the above conclusions, the author addresses such questions as: Can Quality be defined? If not, what does that imply? If it happens that Quality exists in the object, why can't scientific instruments detect it? On the other hand, if Quality is subjective, exiting only in the mind of the observer, then isn't it just a fancy name for whatever you like? Isn't an object just an intellectual construct deduced from its qualities? Pirsig continues: "People differ about Quality, not because Quality is different, but because people are different in term of past experience/ a priori analogues. The easiest intellectual analogue of pure Quality that most people understand is that Quality is the response of an organism to its environment. In our highly complex organic state we advanced organisms respond to our environment with an invention of many marvelous analogues. We invent earth and heavens, trees, stones and oceans, gods, music, arts, language, philosophy, engineering, science. We call these analogues reality. And they are reality! We mesmerize our children in the name of truth into knowing that they are reality. We throw anyone who does not accept these analogues into an insane asylum. But that which causes us to invent the analogues is Quality. Quality is the continuing stimulus which our environment puts upon us to create the world in which we live. All of it. Now, to take that which has caused us to create the world, and include it within the world we have created is clearly impossible. That is why Quality cannot be defined. If we do define it we are defining something less than Quality itself. Quality is the great generating force of all religions, past and present, all knowledge, everything." The author then goes on to explain the striking similarities between Quality and Zen/ God/ Tao/ Buddha/ Ultimate Truth etc. How he arrives at these conclusions is explained thoroughly in the book. Read the book!

While reading the story one undoubtedly gets the feeling that the author is of course speaking about events and things that really did happen in his own life. Therefore, he really did think all the things in the book and maybe "crack a great secret". Because of the depth, brilliance and originality of the way the concepts are united, you feel a little bit of arrogance between the lines coming from the author, and sometimes it seems that he skillfully diverted such possible perceptions of the reader by letting it seem as though the characters in the book discovered everything, and not the author. The book is certainly not written in an arrogant style, and the author must have a deep and brilliant mind to have synthesized all these concepts so skillfully. Also, the part near the beginning of the book where he discusses scientific laws, like gravity for example, not being real things either but only "ghosts" in people's minds ie. subjective entities, was very interesting, and a nice stab at scientific materialism which is too often criticizes other fields for their lack of "objectivity".

One of the things I found quite surprising, but in a negative way, was that at the end of the book, in the Afterword, the author speaks about one of the characters who had passed away in real life a few years after the book had been written. The author speaks about how one is always sad when this type of thing happens and a person always wonders if one lives on after death in some form of energy etc. He mentions that he eventually came to the opinion that one does, for example his newborn daughter who seems to be the incarnation of the former person who passed away. What surprised me about this piece from the author was that you would have thought he would have had his beliefs and opinions on this sorted out long ago. I found it surprising that in a book full of such deep and penetrating insights, that he would not be sure about something as fundamental as death and what that means. I almost felt as though the author let something slip here in the very end, in the Afterword of all places. Nevertheless, this book thoroughly deserves five stars, and I know I will return to it often in order to revise the concepts and ideas presented therein to feed my soul with Quality.

(By the way, there is a very interesting website called Quantonics.com which I stumbled across a couple of years ago, and which is where I first found out about this book. They go into all these concepts in a very scientific way, using quantum physics etc. Interesting stuff.)

Totally Intense
I got this book for my husband and he's making it through it.It's not an easy read but he hasn't given up yet!

I struggled to finish this drivel...avoid at all costs
I am now glad I actual slogged through this book for one reason only.It now solidifies my belief that if a book is getting god awful no matter HOW much of it I have read, I should quit.I wish I did that after the first 100 pages.

Pirsig's novel contains so many things that make reading a chore, or just flat out PAINFUL.This isn't a story it's a screed.This book should have been chopped in more than half consisting of a short story of maybe 100 pages.You are constantly bombarded by intellectual/philosophical meanderings that go nowhere.Not only do they go nowhere they are bone dry dull, mindnumbingly deadening, add NOTHING to the story, and are just flat out ridiculous.

Here is how the book reads, pages and pages of blah blah blah blah (repeat for 50 pages)... I get off the bike and change the oil.blah blah blah blah blah blah... we are heading West now.blah blah blah blah.

In fact the book is just about the opposite of everything good books are suppose to be.This book is, plotless, boring, dry, longwinded, pretentious, dull, unfocused, an ego trip for the author, shall I go on????Seriously this reads like the longest most boring academic paper on the most deranged subject you could think of.How could you even care about the characters in this book after reading these abhorrent passages that in the end really say nothing.I am glad I skimmed the last 10 chapters and only read the passages that contained dialogue.Seriously if you did that you could read this book and understand this story in less than 4/5ths the time it takes to read all the tripe.

I suggest you drive nails through your skull seriously it's less painful than reading this dreck.

classic gift
This book makes a classic gift for the philosopher in the family-I would also recommend FREE YOUR MIND by Anthony Stultz-soon to be a new classic! ... Read more

Book Description
This digital document, covering the life and work of Robert M(aynard) Pirsig, is an entry from Contemporary Authors, a reference volume published by Thompson Gale. The length of the entry is 987 words. The page length listed above is based on a typical 300-word page. Although the exact content of each entry from this volume can vary, typical entries include the following information:

• Place and date of birth and death (if deceased)
• Family members
• Education
• Professional associations and honors
• Employment
• Writings, including books and periodicals
• A description of the author's work
• References to further readings about the author

Book Description
Compilation of the first year of discusions revolving around Robert M. Pirsig's novels, Lila: An Inquiry Into Morals, and Zen And The Art Of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values. Introduction and annotations by Robert Pirsig. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (1)

Metaphysics of Quality
Review of "Lila" by Robert Pirsig.

I loved this thought provoking story.

It is an impressive and engrossing book.

This book surpasses the intensity of "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" in scope and in the development of the author's concepts of quality and value. It is a daring exposition on objective valuation and it offers a broad appeal. Pirsig shows his metaphysics of quality works in real situations and for life changing decisions.

Open up, expand your consciousness, read and enjoy this book.

I recommend this book.

See also:

Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

... Read more

Product Description
The true story of one man's quest for truth set within a father and son's cross country motorcycle trip. A bible of 70s culture that is profound and timeless. ... Read more