Customer Reviews (3)

Love "Gives Peace To Men And Stillness To The Sea"
I'm giving this book three stars not as a reflection of the authors' introduction or anything like that.I would probably give any version of this dialogue three stars.

For me probably the most interesting part of the book was the description of Socrates as he was serving in the army.He was able to walk around in the cold weather wearing just a light cloak and barefoot and he could survive on limited food better than everyone else.

He was also very brave in battle and the enemy soldiers avoided him realizing he would fight to the death.

Socrates was an unusual person I would say.He would sometimes just stand in one place for many hours without moving as he pondered the meaning of life I guess.

The last chapter is about this younger guy who is trying to seduce Socrates.He talks about how he bursts into tears whenever Socrates speaks, etc..Finally he crawls under the covers with Socrates but Socrates refuses to give him what he is craving.

You see Socrates doesn't want to exhange his true moral beauty for mere physical gratification.

(This is where I started taking off stars.)

Socrates had saved this guy's life when he got wounded in battle so that may explain some of the strong emotions.

Jeff Marzano

Plato's famous and influential examination of love
It is rather difficult to review Plato's Symposium from a modern viewpoint.The attempts by Agathon's guests, including Socrates, to define love are largely based on the love of boys rather than women.While that is a difficult concept for me to ponder, I recognize that such a social custom prevailed to some degree in ancient Athens and will attempt to offer an unbiased view of the text.Basically, partygoers celebrating Agathon's first victory in a drama contest decide to do something besides drink themselves into a stupor because they are still paying for such activity the night before.Socrates joins the group on this second night, and it is decided that each man in turn will offer his praises to love.Each of six men offer their interesting, diverse thoughts on the matter, ranging from the conventional to the Socratic ideal.Phaedrus says that the greatest good a boy can have is a gentle lover and that the greatest good a lover can have is a boy to love.He stresses self-sacrifice and virtue as the kind of love the gods love most.Pausanias describes two kinds of love: vulgar love is best explained as love for a woman in the interest of sexual satisfaction; noble love is that concerned with bettering the soul of the object of love (necessarily a young boy).The doctor Eryximachus explains love in terms of harmony, and he goes so far as to credit the vague notion of love with accomplishing all kinds of things in a diverse set of subjects.Aristophanes begins by relating a myth about man's origins.When man was created, individuals were actually attached back to back; the gods later split each human entity in half, and love consists of each person's search for his "missing half" who can be of either sex; even when two mates find one another, their love is imperfect because they cannot become literally attached as they were originally.Agathon says that Love is the youngest of the gods, that he offers the means by which all disputes between the gods and between men are settled, and emphasizes the beauty of love (represented quite well by himself, he seems to say).

Socrates, as can be expected, shifts the discussion of love to a higher plane.Claiming to know the art of love if nothing else, Socrates tells how he gained his knowledge from a fictional character called Diotima.He says that love represents the desire to give "birth in beauty," that love is neither a god or a mortal but is instead the messenger between god and man.To love is to want to acquire and possess the good forever and thus attain immortality.Socrates goes on to give a very important speech about one of Plato's perfect Forms--namely, the Form of Beauty.The advanced lover will learn to seek Beauty in its abstract form and will take no more notice of physical beauty; the perfect lover is a philosopher who can create virtue in its true form rather than produce mere images of virtue.This short summary in no way does justice to Socrates' speech, but it gives the general idea.After Socrates speaks, a drunken Alcibiades (Socrates' own beloved) crashes the party and commences to give a speech about Socrates, the effect of which is to identify Socrates as a lover who deceives others into loving him.As both lover and beloved, Socrates is seemingly held up by Plato as the true embodiment of love.To truly love is to be a philosopher.

I myself don't hold this text in as high regard as many intellectuals, but there can be no doubt of this dialogue's influence on Western thought over the centuries.The book succeeds in the presentation ofadvanced philosophical ideas and as literature.The discussion of the Form of Beauty is particularly useful in terms of understanding Platonic thought.It would seem that this dinner party and the speeches we read are very likely fictitious and represent Plato's thoughts much more closely than Socrates' own views, but it is impossible to tell to what extent this is true.The Symposium is inarguably one of Plato's most influential, most important texts and is required reading for anyone seriously interested in philosophy as it has existed and continues to exist in Western society.

A version which lets the masterpiece speak for itself
I bought this textbook for my Classical Philosophy class (which was taught by William Placher - check his books out, they're awesome), and the Symposium really got me thinking about what love really is. What's cool about the work is that while each of the speeches make some great points, in the end they never really decide on a final answer, so it's still your call.

I liked the Symposium so much, that I decided to buy it as a gift for my friend. It was then that I realized how superior the Woodruff version is - other versions I found in bookstores featured commentary that was sometimes more than twice as long as the actual work! In this version, on the other hand, the introduction is short but informative - therefore you're not paying extra to hear some other guy give his two cents on Plato's work, when Plato's words themselves are really all you're interested in. ... Read more

Book Description

Plato, the great philosopher of Athens, was born in 427 BCE. In early manhood an admirer of Socrates, he later founded the famous school of philosophy in the grove Academus. Much else recorded of his life is uncertain; that he left Athens for a time after Socrates' execution is probable; that later he went to Cyrene, Egypt, and Sicily is possible; that he was wealthy is likely; that he was critical of 'advanced' democracy is obvious. He lived to be 80 years old. Linguistic tests including those of computer science still try to establish the order of his extant philosophical dialogues, written in splendid prose and revealing Socrates' mind fused with Plato's thought.

In Laches, Charmides, and Lysis, Socrates and others discuss separate ethical conceptions. Protagoras, Ion, and Meno discuss whether righteousness can be taught. In Gorgias, Socrates is estranged from his city's thought, and his fate is impending. The Apology (not a dialogue), Crito, Euthyphro, and the unforgettable Phaedo relate the trial and death of Socrates and propound the immortality of the soul. In the famous Symposium and Phaedrus, written when Socrates was still alive, we find the origin and meaning of love. Cratylus discusses the nature of language. The great masterpiece in ten books, the Republic, concerns righteousness (and involves education, equality of the sexes, the structure of society, and abolition of slavery). Of the six so-called dialectical dialogues Euthydemus deals with philosophy; metaphysical Parmenides is about general concepts and absolute being; Theaetetus reasons about the theory of knowledge. Of its sequels, Sophist deals with not-being; Politicus with good and bad statesmanship and governments; Philebus with what is good. The Timaeus seeks the origin of the visible universe out of abstract geometrical elements. The unfinished Critias treats of lost Atlantis. Unfinished also is Plato's last work of the twelve books of Laws (Socrates is absent from it), a critical discussion of principles of law which Plato thought the Greeks might accept.

The Loeb Classical Library edition of Plato is in twelve volumes.

Customer Reviews (5)

Great for Greek Students
The translation is easy to follow when looking at both languages, which can sometimes be difficult due to certain liberties most translators rightly take to make the English sound better, yet in this Loeb both good English is used and it sticks to the Greek for the most part.This quality makes it helpful for the student of Greek who needs some help while translating if an instructor is not available.

Interesting read...
I read this book in college when I was learning about Plato, Socrates, and Aristotle...and it's been on the bookself since...but I still read it from time to time...interesting if you're into philosophy or history

Useful for the specialist and the student
Like most volumes in the Loeb series, the emphasis is not on word-for-word precision in the translation, but on acheiving greater readability in broader terms. Since the original text in ancient Greek is provided on the facing page, the editors assume that anyone with a little knowledge of Greek can supplement the looseness of the translation by referring to the original. And in general, the compromises made in this way are good ones throughout the series. This particular translation is one of the more succesful in the Loeb series and manages to chart a course quite close to the original while also catching the flavor of idiomatic English.

A FUNNY THING HAPPENED WHILE IMBIBING THE HEMLOCKý
The four books in this volume are foundational for anyone interested in Western philosophy. They touch on the "BIG" themes like the gods, Truth, Wisdom and Death...

Death is the ultimate bummer in the ancient Greek worldview. It is not a pretty picture. As seen in the Odyssey, death can be a very nasty place. Even for the best---heroes like Achilles, death is like an eternal waiting room with no eventual appointment. How unsurprising then, that Socrates, who loved to turn Greek convention on its ear, would envision death as the ultimate journey, the ultimate freedom.

Socrates sees the chief value of death as the soul's final separation from the horrid constraints of the body. According to him, the body holds back the soul. With it, man can never encounter the ultimate justice, beauty and truth. Without the body, all things seem possible to Socrates. As far as this line of thinking goes, I find Socrates' thought to be very similar to some forms of Buddhism and the more extreme kinds of Christian asceticism (largely influenced by Plato's Socrates).

However, Socrates goes beyond this. He claims that there is some kind of reward that awaits those who willingly come to death. A seat among the gods he calls it...

How ironic then that Socrates dies amidst the worldly concern of a debt that he owes.

How does that old line go? Something about folks trying to save their own life losing it?

A necessity to any philosophy/greek student.
The mirror text offered in this book is of the most importance to any serious philosophy student.However for the mirror text to have any use you must know some Greek.The Greek text is on one side with Fowler's english translation on the other.It serves as an excellent reference whether using the Fowler translation or another translation because at any point where a misunderstanding occurs which may be due to a word choice in translation, one can simply look at the greek.It serves as a great reference for a person who takes Plato seriously and knows some Greek. ... Read more

Book Description
This Companion provides a fresh and comprehensive account of this outstanding work, which remains among the most frequently read works of Greek philosophy, indeed of Classical antiquity in general. The sixteen essays, by authors who represent various academic disciplines, bring a spectrum of interpretive approaches to bear in order to aid the understanding of a wide-ranging audience, from first-time readers of the Republic who require guidance, to more experienced readers who wish to explore contemporary currents in the work's interpretation. The three initial chapters address aspects of the work as a whole. They are followed by essays that match closely the sequence in which topics are presented in the ten books of the Republic. Since the Republic returns frequently to the same topics by different routes, so do the authors of this volume, who provide the readers with divergent yet complementary perspectives by which to appreciate the Republic's principal concerns. ... Read more

Book Description

Customer Reviews (8)

A timeless discourse on desire
Plato's Symposium is a discourse on the nature and origins of love and eroticism.This is done through a lengthy dialogue at the dinner party at the home of Agathon, where he and his guests, including Socrates (his lover), partake in wine and take turns eulogizing Eros, the god of love and desire.Each does his best to praise the god, while Socrates comments on them afterward through speech and dialogue.In the end, the party is joined by the intoxicated Alcibiades, who speaks of Socrates's honorable traits while also confessing his love and desire for him.

Symposiums in Greek society were a chance for men to recline on couches and drink, converse, debate and party with one another.They were usually held to celebrate a young male entering aristocratic society, and normally these youths would attend as the companion of one of the adults with whom we was involved in a pederastic relationship.The arguments and topics presented in the Symposium can be difficult for the average modern reader to comfortably comprehend, as nearly each speech somehow turns inevitably to the subject of, and ultimate praise of, pederasty.This physical and emotional love between a man and a youth is held in high regard in the Symposium's reasoning, often being seen as more pure and more desirable than one between a man and a woman.The latter is more bent on procreation and physical attraction, while, in their eyes, pederasty deals more with souls and the love of that which is alike.It is these assumptions, which arise in each speech, which can make it difficult for one to agree completely with one of the character's arguments. Nevertheless, it is possible to find persuasive elements in each of their various speeches that can reveal valuable insight into the ways and reasons that human beings love and are beloved.

The young Phaedrus is the first to honor Eros.The value of his view lies in his belief that a man who loves is a man who cares, and thus a man who strives to do good and not bring about shame to him or the ones he loves.Pausinias is next to speak, and he is persuasive in distinguishing the two manifestations of Eros, or two types of love: the love of the physical (Pandemus) and the love of the spiritual (Uranian).He then correctly places the spiritual love higher, for those of the other kind "are in love with their bodies and not their souls" and they can be "in love with the stupidest there can be, for they have an eye only to act [sexually] and are unconcerned with whether it is noble or not" (Plato 10).He decrees that one must love both the body and the soul, for if one loves only the body, "as soon as the bloom of the body fades - which is what he was in love with - `he is off and takes wing'" (Plato 13).

The third to speak is Eryximachus, whose speaks rightly of loves impact upon art and beauty.Aristophanes next gives an amusing, although no less romantic, portrayal of primordial balls of flesh rolling around, and being split into two parts, and searching the rest of its life for its other half to finally complete itself.It illustrates the loneliness one feels when without their lover.Agathon then gives an eloquent speech, the highlight of which is Eros's power to bring humans together in happiness.

Lastly, the wise Socrates speaks.At first he uses what has presently been deemed `Socratic dialogue' by asking Agathon a series of questions in order to bring out inconsistencies in his argument.By doing this, he is able manipulate a conversation to his liking, and convince the person he is conversing with of his own opinion by making it seem as though they arrived at that idea themselves.In this instance, Agathon originally said that Eros was by nature good and beautiful, but when examining the nature of love through Socrates' interrogation, he concludes that Eros is neither good nor beautiful.Socrates furthers his explanation by recounting a dialogue he had with a wise woman named Diotima of Mantineia.The genius of this instance is the realization of procreation being a way for an individual to seek immortality, and the need to create, in general, things such as art or great ideas or laws are driven from this need to be remembered.Human beings not only generate but also nurture to further the guarantee that their mark will be made lasting, whether it is a child or an epic.This could certainly account for the passion in humans for fame and/or reproduction, and gives terrific insight into the ultimate purposes of most human actions.(However, Diotima seems to fall short in one part of her argument when she says that man "will never generate in the ugly" for he desires beauty and good too greatly, yet infamy through death and fear has certainly been a motivating factor in many men's actions through their course to fame and remembrance).

In this publication by The University of Chicago Press the reader is given Seth Benardete's beautiful translation along with the Allan Bloom's insightful "Ladder of Love," which offers an analysis of the ancient text (although some background knowledge of the historical Socrates would ensure getting the most out of this essay).Plato's Symposium proves to be a wonderfully philosophical discourse on desire, although some of its ideas, as identified earlier, are justly outdated.Nevertheless, it provides a glimpse into the inner workings of man's heart and the forces that propel him to go on each day.

Decent
I found many of the ideas about love in the Symposium very interesting and the Ladder of Love that followed was also good to read.

Plato's Mystery of Desire
Seth Benardete does a superb service to philosophers and lovers alike with his excellent translation of Plato's Symposium.This masterpiece of theatre and dialogue gives its readers the foundation for the question of desire and Benardete is precisely the kind of careful and precise translator who is capable of bringing out much of what lies hidden in the original Greek language.I recommend this translation for those who love literature as well as philosophy and those who wonder about their own desire.

The commentary by Bloom at the end of the text is informative and stimulating, if not always accurate.

RE: best edition available
I agree that Benardete's is the best translation of this dialogue you can buy.But it was already published way back in 1986 in _Dialogues of Plato_ edited by Erich Segal.As far as I can tell, the translation in the present edition is simply a reprint of the one already published.

best edition available
This is an elegant and accurate translation (much more readable than Benardete's gnomic renditions of Theaetetus / Sophist / Statesman). Benardete's essay is also a joy (it was previously published, but in a rather obscure German edition). Bloom's commentary is a bit of a slog and very rarely surprising. The reviewer below who remarked that "if you already have Love and Friendship and a copy of the Symposium you might feel gyped [sic]" has missed the mark; the prize here is the translation itself. Now if only Chicago had included Blanckenhagen's "Stage and Actor" as well! ... Read more

Book Description
This collection features Plato's writings on sex and love in the preeminent translations of Stanley Lombardo, Paul Woodruff and Alexander Nehamas, D.S. Hutchinson, and C.D.C. Reeve.

Reeve's Introduction provides a wealth of historical information about Plato and Socrates, and the sexual norms of classical Athens. His introductory essay looks closely at the dialogues themselves and includes the following sections: Socrates and the Art of Love; Socrates and Athenian Paiderastia; Loving Socrates; Love and the Ascent to the Beautiful; The Art and Psychology of Love Explained; and Writing about Love. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (1)

I hate Plato!!!
Despite my strong dislike for Plato, this translation made his writings easier to read and understand.It is very clear and modern in its language.Indeed, in no other version has any humor come through; and two professors of classical studies have commented on the accuracy of the translation.Perhaps other versions have tried for a more 'high-class' respectable sounding language; regardless, the feel of this makes it seem much more real and accessible.The footnotes are especially helpful giving complete descriptions and explanations of the people, situations, terminology, context, and helping tie together the different sections.Most of Plato's philosophy initially sounds ridiculous and fetishistic, or even to be the inane ramblings of an egocentric, self-important person who over estimates his own intelligence - and may very well be - but in this version the underlying ideas are made obvious and it becomes therefor easy to trace how these writings influenced our cultural philosophy and ideas about sex, the purpose of love, and the nature of human striving for perfection. ... Read more

Book Description
CRITICAL THEORY SINCE PLATO is a chronologically-arranged anthology that presents a broad survey of the history and development of literary criticism and theory in Western culture. Written by two well-known scholars in the field of literary study, this well-respected text puts an emphasis on the individual contributors to the development of literary criticism, from Plato and Aristotle to the present. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (3)

Valuable for generations
This was a frightening book when I had to read it in my LitTheory class.Now I'm so glad I held on to it.It's in my "desert island books " collection along with the Bible, complete works of Shakespeare and a dictionary. It's the volume Harold Bloom probably wishes he'd put together.

Don't let the vast panorama of ideas intimidate you.This tome is meant to be read a little bit at a time.It's a very "back to basics" experience.These ideas comprise the alchemical components of literary thought.Ideally, this is the book you return to in the course of reading whatever literature you fancy.Use it as a touchstone to help you discern, appreciate, and quite plainly, enjoy the art of literature.

Critical Critical Theory
The title says it all. Hazard Adams has compiled a collection of essays, dialogs, excerpts, etc. from Plato to Postmodernism. The selections made could be called the critical pieces of Critical Theory.

I purchased this book to accompany a college level course on Literary Theory, and it served excellently in that capacity. This book is not, however, self-explanatory. You should have some kind of background in theory before diving into this book. The introductions to the book, and to the beginning of each selection are generally enlightening, but still require some basic knowledge of the field. If you haven't had a formal introduction to theory, you may want to purchase a guide, or take a course on it before beginning this book.

However, if you have a good grasp of basic theory, this is an excellent book to help guide you deeper into the field.

Adams presents a useful srvey of critical history.
In Critical Theory Since Plato, Hazard Adams surveys the history of criticsm from Plato through the post-structuralists.Considering the exhaustive nature of his topic, Adams does a good job of presenting abalanced view of the subject.The essays are arranged chronologically,allowing the reader to survey not only a particular author, but thedevelopment of critical theory as well.Each essay is prefaced by anintroduction by Adams.These introductions are helpful to a newcomer tothe subject.A student with no experience working with critical theory,though, may also find it helpful to purchase a critical theory handbook,such as those available by Eagleton.Still, there is no substitute forthe original sources, and Adams has compiled a useful, lively textbook. See also Critical Theory Since 1965 by the same author. ... Read more

Product Description
Based on the latest and most authoritative edition of the Republic available, this careful translation provides the groundwork by which students can come to their own understanding of this seminal work of Western thought, as is appropriate for courses in core curriculum which emphasize students dealing directly with Great Books.Other useful features include a chapter-by-chapter outline of principal speakers and summary of the content, Stephanus numbers, boldface type to indicate the entrance of a new speaker into the discussion, footnotes, and glossary of key terms with cross references for the text ... Read more

Customer Reviews (3)

Interesting
I think that this is an interesting book.Much of the philosophy is quite difficult to completely comprehend.It is interesting to read about Plato's ideas.

Republic Sachs
Excellent book.The translation is noteworthy for its readability, accuracy, and, not least of all, its provocative footnotes.

The Republic made lucid for modern readrers.
At the age of 50+ I realized that much of what I was trying to figure out cou
ld not be understood without reading -- and understanding -- several basic works in the history of western thought.One of these was Plato's REPUBLIC.

I began reading Jowett's translation, which I had bought about 1964. I kept running up against words I didn't fully understand. The whole thing sounded like a period piece, some antique writing I should appreciate as an historical treasure.

When I encountered Sachs' translation I realized that the thinking the dialogue presents is relevant -- and challenging -- to what we encounter today.The folks in this version sound like educated contemporaries, and there are few words so ambiguous that the reader can't figure out which meaning is intended. This translation reads as living thinking, not as a record of some quaint ideas hatched and frozen long ago. ... Read more

Book Description

Customer Reviews (1)

Incredible
This is the translation everyone should read. It's extremely easy to read and it turns theotherwise difficult dialogue in to a type of readable story line that keeps you interested in the mind blowing issues being discussed only a couple thousand years ago. This version definitely brings Plato's Republic back to the present day.
As for the book it self, it's just unbelievable. In the fact that it was written over a thousand years ago.And also because so much has changed since then, but the issues are all things we still contemplate today. This book will change the way you think if you let it. It has been thousands ofyears and still few works of present day writers can rival it. Just incredible. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (9)

The first attempt to systematically explain the universe
Plato's Timaeus is a dialogue (more like a speech actually, since Timaeus talks uninterrupted for the last 100 pages or so) which is his explanation of the nature and purpose of the universe.He decides that a supreme being (termed God, but not the same as the Christian or Judaistic God, as he is neither omniscient nor immanent.He is there but he is silent.) created the universe.It was not creation ex nihilo, but rather he used some already existing material, a plasticy substance upon which the ideal Forms can be imprinted.So, this God thought of the Forms, then created the physical universe by imprinting said Forms upon the "recepticle of being."Thus the physical universe is imperfect because the recepticle can not perfectly imitate the Forms.

Plato also discusses the makeup of the universe, and unfortunately he is often so incorrect as to not even be worth reading, other than as historical background to other developments.For example, he goes on for a long while about how all mater is made of triangles.Or later he discusses the interchangability of fire, water, earth, and air.

Though many parts of the Timaeus are not especially helpful, there are many parts which are greatly important to understanding ancient thought, both of Plato's time and that of those who were greatly influenced by him, especially Augustine.

The Critas is an unfinished dialogue, the sequel to the Timaeus, in which Plato does not get past a preliminary discussion of an ancient civilization which was supossed to be analyzed in this dialogue.The reason that this dialogue is read (besides being a work of Plato) is that this ancient civilization is Atlantis.It is in this book that we have the first mention of that mythical island.In the dialogue it is claimed that the famed Salon brought the tale to Greece, and that he had learned it from the Egyptians.It is debated whether Plato believed in Atlantis, or whether he invented it to illustrate his point in the dialogue.In either case, it is an interesting read.

Overall grade: A

First Appearance Of Atlantis In Literature
I'm not sure why Plato ever became so famous based on this book.
He states as fact things that are only conjecture really.

It makes basically no sense at all based on what we now know about modern science, the human body, etc..

But then Plato didn't have access to all that we know now.In that sense it can be interesting to see how someone tried to apply simple ideas to explain everything.

And he does try to explain everything in this short book from the creation of the universe to the creation of the human body.

However the information about Atlantis is fascinating.In that part of the book it appears to me that Plato really is stating facts but yet that is the part that many people (including the author of the appendix) say is science fiction.

To say that mythology including the story of Atlantis is science fiction is "highly unphilosophical, nay rediculous"

(Poseidon: A Link Between Semite, Hamite, and Aryan (Paperback)
by Robert Brown ).

Or people like this guy try to explain mythology by relating it to more conventional places, events, etc.. where it doesn't fit at all.That's because they don't understand mythology is talking about metaphysical and supernatural events.

Yes Atlantis was a real place.It was a super race that started I guess about 50,000 years ago and was light years ahead of our current society.Many people today are experiencing past life memories about Atlantis where they see the amazing crystal technology, genetic engineering, time travel, etc..

With all the controversy about evolution versus creationism Plato provides some assistance:

"Birds were produced by a process of transformation, growing feathers instead of hair, from harmless, empty-headed men, who were interested in the heavens but were silly enough to think that visible evidence is all the foundation astronomy needs."

"Land animals came from men who had no use of philosophy... while their skulls were elongated into various shapes as a result of the crushing of their circles.And the reason some have four feet and others many was that the stupider they were the more supports god gave them, to tie them more closely to earth."

"But the most unintelligent and ignorant of all turned into the fourth kind of creature that lives in water... their makers thought them unfit to breathe pure clean air, and made them inhale water, into whose turbid depths they plunged them."

Poseidon: A Link Between Semite, Hamite, and Aryan

The Mystery of the Crystal Skulls: Unlocking the Secrets of the Past, Present, and Future

The Secret Teachings of All Ages (Reader's Edition)

Edgar Cayce's Atlantis and Lemuria: The Lost Civilizations in the Light of Modern Discoveries

Edgar Cayce's Egypt: Psychic Revelations on the Most Fascinating Civilization Ever Known

Plato's Timaeus and ModernPhysics
If there is one book to own, it's this one. Every night read sections 15 to 22 slowly.The rest of the book is important for other reasons, but sections 15 to 22 shaped the face of modern physics, philosophy, and religion in matters of cosmology and cosmogony.It's relevance today is still a matter of scholarly debate, but a few simple substitutions of modern terms for Plato's gives the reader a familiar set of problems, viz. those of modern physics, without being anachronistic to Plato in the least.The current "prime stuff" theory of space, is reached for by Plato in his discussion of space. The amazing success of mathematical description has its origin in Plato connecting the Platonic solids with the first theory of chemistry.Our modern notions of order and pattern emerging from complexity that we see in Mandelbrot and Wolfram are clearly stated by Plato in section 21. You'll see exactly where to place the concepts of quark or Kaluza-Klein, by careful re-reading of these sections. Of the most primary importance, is the unsolved problem of existence and reality as posed then and now. After reading it enough to know the ancient context from our modern one, of this last question one can ask just how far we have or haven't come in 2500 years.

Early physics...sort of
Plato is deep. That can't be emphasized enough. He deals more with physics in "Timaeus" than in any other extant work. This is not so much a belief system, or paradigm, presented, so much as ideas. Nowhere does Plato actually endorse these views (although they are well worth learning). He sort of asks the reader to listen with an open mind, and THEN be critical. I found something interesting in one of the parts on geometric physics that seems to have excaped every commentater I am aware of,so who knows what else is still hidden after more than 2,000 years?

You get Atlantis stories, flood myths, the Atomic theory, evolution/reincarnation, medical/biological theory, and creation myth. Running through some parts is some very interesting (to me, at least) mathematics. All from one of (if not the) clearest mind(s) I have ever read. Not to mention an excellent writer.

"Critias" is unfinished, whether it was left that way, or the ending has been lost. It's the earliest tale of Atlantis we have (Atlantis is only discussed very briefly in "Timaeus"). It can be taken as a morality parable. On the other hand, it may also be a myth that found it's way to Plato...or even a relatively accurate historical account. Or all of the above. Because, like I said: Plato is deep.

Plato's Science and Psychology
Desmond Lee, the translator of the Penguin edition of Timaeus and
Critias, claims his goal is an accurate representation of Plato's
thought, as opposed to maintaining style or convention. Indeed,
despite the purported obscurity of the original Greek, his work
plainly reveals Plato's ideas. Timaeus presents some of Plato's
clearest statements on issues related to science and psychology,
the focus of this review. Lee provides a good introduction, section
summaries, and helpful diagrams of Plato's ideas, but few footnotes
and no index. Incidentally, Timaeus and Critias introduce astrology
and the famous story of Atlantis, one of the most intriguing
mysteries in literature. Lee writes an appendix on Atlantis, pointing
out its mythical qualities, clarifying Plato's descriptions with maps,
and outlining the case for its historical origins. This edition would
be a good choice for readers interested in the source material for the
Atlantis legend and a summary of its ramifications, with a short
bibliography. The importance of Timaeus, however, is its presentation
of Plato's philosophy in its maturity, one relevant to science.

Materialism dominates Western culture today. Briefly, materialism
identifies reality as the objects that people perceive and manipulate
in their environment, or the particles that comprise them. The following
concepts fit nicely with this outlook: causality as a product of lawful
interactions among objects, reductionism where the events we perceive can
ultimately be attributed to universal laws and material particles, and
an evolutionary theory that explains the development of the universe
through natural laws from elementary particles. These materialist
meta-theories are the foundation of today's science.

Plato's philosophy denies that reality is only material objects, because
they merely reflect an underlying perfect, good, and beautiful reality.
In the Republic, Plato provides a memorable metaphor for our illusion of
reality in his depiction of cave dwellers who are constrained to see
only flickering shadows cast by firelight on the cave wall, oddly shaping
their conceptions. Plato's depiction of the world as image resembles
religious doctrines, such as the Hindu concept of maya. In the Gospels,
John's portrayal of Jesus as the manifestation of God's plan (logos - the
Word) resembles Plato's perfect eternal template from which earthly
objects manifest themselves. Unlike religous doctrines, however, that
ascribe natural phenomena such as diseases or psychological disturbances
to the will of gods, Plato sets out to explain the processes underlying
these disturbances, implying the possibility of establishing relations
between the ideal and its image through a rational investigation, and of
manipulating these relations, which might be called Platonic science.

Plato's model consists of a perfect eternity of Being having ideal
forms that only the most gifted in this mortal life can, with effort,
vaguely glimpse via thought, versus our ordinary, sensible, protean
world of Becoming which is constructed based on the ideal forms with the
four elements: fire, earth, water, and air. Timaeus distinguishes these
two realities as "that which always is and never becomes from that which
is always becoming but never is." The world's creator used the eternally
unchanging forms of Being as "his pattern for the form and function of
his product." First, the creator god made the heavens and the gods that
inhabit it, then set the conditions for making the inhabitants of earth,
but left to other gods actual implementation of these creatures. The gods
made humans with both immortal (intellectual soul) and mortal (body) parts,
the immortal part sharing much in common with that of the gods and the
whole universe, including its motions of Same and Different. Timaeus
provides all the preposterous details for this creation, including how
the soul is bonded to the body, the geometrical shapes corresponding to
the four elements, etc. Besides Being and Becoming, Timaeus describes
the third aspect of reality, the Receptacle, an unchanging plastic substance,
without attributes of its own, in which the perfect forms are impressed and
which provides the space for the position of objects in our world.

Plato casts his psychology as the workings of the soul. Timaeus refines
the concept of a tripartite soul from prior dialogs into a rational,
immortal executive that resides in the head; a good, mortal part in the
chest that governs passion, courage, etc.; and an inferior, unruly, mortal
part below the diaphram that exercises the appetites. Each of these soul
parts has a motion copied from the cosmos, which must be exercised for
proper mental health, and balanced with the exercise of the body for overall
health. Human inability to control such motions is the original cause of
irrationality and conflict. Timaeus mentions only in passing the theory
developed in the dialog Phaedrus, which describes motivation as the memory
of an ideal form, as when love results from the beauty of a person who
mediates recall of divine beauty. Timaeus describes sensations as the
product of motions of objects that are transmitted to the soul by particles
that pass through sensory organs, causing pain or pleasure, heat or cold,
hard or soft, etc., depending on their characteristics (e.g., size, speed,
strength). He formulates the basis of pain as a sudden departure from the
normal state and pleasure as a return to it. Thus, Plato presents theories
about mental structures, sensations, emotions, motivation, space and object
perception, and abnormal psychology.

Today, Plato's descriptions of creation, physical and biological processes,
human anatomy, and psychological functions are so erroneous as to be
humorously entertaining. Rather than dismissing too facilely his more
general philosophy and its relevance to psychology, however, we might
consider his account as symbolic and his specifics as suggestive. Stripped
of such unverifiable concepts as soul and divinity, could his work outline
a psychology that has value over that of materialist approaches? Alternately,
will ever more closer examination of the brain, for example, eventually yield
full understanding of self-awareness, thought, and consciousness, just as
expected when one has the circuit diagram of any machine? Plato had, at times,
an uncanny ability to see truth. Observed motions of stars do actually result
from different motions. Humans really are made of star stuff. Could Plato
genuinely have glimpsed eternal truths? Before you make up your mind on such
questions, you will have to study Plato's Timaeus. ... Read more

Book Description
Plato stands as the fount of our philosophical tradition, being the first Western thinker to produce a body of writing that touches upon a wide range of topics still discussed by philosophers today.In a sense he invented philosophy as a distinct subject, for although many of these topics were discussed by his intellectual predecessors and contemporaries, he was the first to bring them together by giving them a unitary treatment. This volume contains fourteen new essays discussing Plato's views about knowledge, reality, mathematics, politics, ethics, love, poetry, and religion. There are also analyses of the intellectual and social background of his thought, the development of his philosophy throughout his career, the range of alternative approaches to his work, and the stylometry of his writing. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (6)

Very Good
This is a very good overview of Plato's philosophy. I would recommend this volume for those that want to learn of his philosophy without reading that acual works.

(no title)
I cannot recommend this volume highly enough. It's a collection of essays, all (bar one) especially written for this volume, each of them authored by a leading scholar on the respective dialogue or topic. Especially the pieces by Frede and Fine constitute path-breaking, durable contributions to Plato scholarship; each of them would merit the purchase by itself. Between them, Frede and Fine also introduce the reader to two rather different approaches to interpreting Plato, and at once present these approaches at their very best.

Some essays are naturally harder than others, ranging from the instantly accessible to the rather technical. This is as it should be: a reader's companion to Plato's dialogues which themselves vary from the easy to the 'forbidding'. And a book that won't become redundant as your own competence with the dialogues grows (who ever said it won't?).

To conclude: these pieces range from the good to the outstanding, none of them is harder than it should be, and they display considerable diversity in methodology.

PS People interested in the 'non-doctrinal' approach to reading Plato may profitably consult Ferrari's piece at http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/bmcr/2000/2000-11-10.html, and the "Introduction" (pt.III-IV) in John Cooper, "Plato: Complete Works" (Hackett 1997).

Your time and money are better spent elsewhere
Plato is perhaps the most approachable of the major philosophers. His work is largely presented in short dialogues. Their brevity allow them to be read in a single sitting, and their characterizations, humor, and stories engage even the reader new to philosophy.

Given this, it may surprise those unfamiliar with Plato to learn that the interpretation of him has always been the subject of hot dispute - perhaps only Nietzsche among philosophers has inspired more controversy.

Why is this? Why is Plato so easy to read and yet so difficult?

Five problems are worth calling out:

(1) Dramatic presentation: All of Plato's published works are presented as dialogues between characters - Plato himself is never a character. Thus, any interpretation must have some mapping (implicit or explicit) between the characters' views and Plato's views, as well as how the dramatic structure (setting, characters, story) as a whole presents Plato's views.

(2) Irony: The main speaker in most of Plato's dialogues is Socrates, a character who often speaks ironically. Other characters can be read as sometimes being ironical as well (such as The Athenian in the dialogue "Laws"). Any interpretation must determine when a character is speaking ironically and when seriously.

(3) Stories/Myths: Characters in Plato's dialogues often tell stories whose subject matter is mythological - they concern Gods and Goddesses, the afterlife,and other subject matter beyond ordinary human experience. Any interpretation that deals with them must determine how they are to be read.

(4) The Platonic Lie: In "The Republic", Plato endorses (or seems to endorse) lying as a means of instilling beneficial beliefs in audiences that are unable to acquire philosophical knowledge. A beneficial belief is one that is not true in its substance, but which, if believed, will tend to the same end as would the corresponding knowledge. If we accept that this is Plato's view, then interpretations must consider whether views expressed in the dialogues are themselves Platonic Lies, and not real representations of Plato's thought.

(5) Historical Background: Plato lived in a time and place different from our own, whose language, customs, intellectual background, and attitudes are not ours. This is a much bigger problem than just unfamiliar names - it is the unconscious attitudes we absorb from our culture (and he from his) of which we are not necessarily even consciously aware. Different interpreters do not read these influences the same way (there is no book we can all go to called "How We Thought About Things", authored by "The Ancient Greeks").

With regard to these issues, the dominant view in "A Cambridge Companion to Plato" is something I would call Platonic Fundamentalism: "Socrates says what Plato means, and he means what he says" (this is after the Christian Fundamentalist credo: "The Bible says what it means and it means what it says").

A difficulty with this view is that it leaves Plato contradicting himself an awful lot. The general solution presented here is the evolving-Plato theory - that the dialogues were written over a long period of time and that the contradictions represent real changes in Plato's views. The collection thus abounds in references to Plato's "early dialogues" or "middle dialogues" or "late dialogues".

Now, there are certainly Plato scholars, past and present, who do not accept this particular interpretive framework, but their views, if raised at all,are raised only so that they may be dismissed (sometimes in the same sentence). Those looking for substantial engagement on the problems of Platonic interpretation must look elsewhere.

So, given that the book does not aim to present the scholarly debate on interpreting Plato, it is fair to ask: what does it aim to do? This is an excellent question, but I could not find the answer to it in the book itself.

If it were for the beginning reader, I would think it would focus on the order of reading, and on prepping the reader with background info for each dialogue so as to make reading it more rewarding. But it doesn't do anything like that.

If it were for the intermediate reader, I would think it would focus on illuminating doubtful passages or drawing connecting webs across disparate ones. But it doesn't do that either.

If it were for the advanced reader, I would think it would focus on the debates in the secondary literature, and that it would be used by peers to address peers on controversies. But it doesn't do that either.

So, when it comes to the ultimate question of whether I should recommend the book or not, I just can't think of anyone to whom I would recommend it.

Finally, to take another tack at how worthwhile a book is: the basic challenge any work of secondary literature must face is whether it is more profitable to read it, or to give the primary literature another reading instead.

The only work in the collection that I would say clearly passes that test is Constance Meinwald's essay on "Parmenides" (for those who don't know, "Parmenides" is by far the most formidable work in the Platonic corpus - the first half works to demolish the theory of Forms that we might otherwise hold to be Plato's view, and the second half defies the ability of most readers to make any sense of at all). Even here, however, if you want to read Meinwald's theories on "Parmenides" (and they are worth reading), you would do better to get her book "Plato's Parmenides" than to read the essay excerpted from that book included here.

A Very Good Introduction to Plato
The Cambridge Companion to Plato is an extrememly good primer of Plato's philosophy. The book begins with a complete overview of Plato's philosophy and how it progressed through time. This overview is particularly helpful for those who have never studied Plato before and essential for those who use this book, as I did, as their first exposure to the study of philosophy.

Like all books in the Cambridge series, the Companion to Plato consists of a number of essays written by preminent scholars. These essays explain and evaluate various aspects of Plato's philosophy, from "the defense of justice in Plato's Republic" to "mathematical method and philosophical truth."

Like any philosophy textbook, The Cambridge Companion to Plato can, at times, be dense. I won't recommend it for everbody; a hearty interest in learning philosophy is definately required. However, I've found it to be one of the finest introductions to Plato in his philosophy. It provides a good foundation for actual reading of Plato's texts, which is the next logical step beyond this book. It is also perfect for those who wish to gain a working understanding of Plato's view of the world but, like me, simply do not have the patience to garner it from Plato's own work.

A comprehensive introduction to Plato
This collection of essays written by a host of outstanding scholars of ancient philosophy in this generation may well serve as a comprehensive and dense guideline to the philosophy of Plato and the contemporary viewpointsconcerning the arguments presented by Plato. I am especially impressed bythe excellent introduction written by the editor of this book, RichardKraut. It is so well-organized, sharply presented and teemed with usefulmaterials that I find it to be the best short introduction on Plato I everread. And the structure of the whole book is also well balanced that theessays of which it is composed nearly touch every controverisal problemsconcerning Plato's philosophy and that those problems are all more or lesstreated in a appreciable way. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (4)

Superb Translation of One of the Most Important Texts
To my mind, this translation surpasses all others with which I am familiar.The translation (1) has a flowing literary style that does justice to the rich feel of reading Plato's own prose, (2) is remarkably precise in its reflecting of the original language, with the result that, when one notices something interesting going on in the language of the translation, one will consistently find it is reproducing what is found in the Greek.In both these ways, this is a very trustworthy text--the reader can confidently presume to be experiencing Plato's writing.The dialogue itself--Plato's _Phaedo_--has few parallels for philosophical, literary and cultural depth and importance.It is the conversation Socrates has on the day of his death with a number of philosophical admirers.It is a rich discussion of the nature of knowledge, the nature of virtue, the ultimate nature of reality and especially the nature of death itself.The introduction by the translators is also uncommonly good for putting the reader in a position to read the text well.This is the only translation of the _Phaedo_ that I will assign to my classes.This translation is a fantastic accomplishment.

Translation
Ms. Evan Brann is one of the finest translators of Greek in the country.Using the system laid out by Jacob Kline, Ms. Brann has perfected the ideal of literal translation.She stays with the Greek and allows the reader to decide just what Plato said without getting in the way.The glossaries are particularly useful to those with even a rudimentary knowlege of the language of the Greeks.Do not allow a translator or editor to stand between you and the text: choose Brann.

The true Philosopher is always seeking to free the soul from the body
_If it was up to me to preserve just one of the dialogues of Plato for posterity it would be the Phaedo. That is because this is the metaphysical core of the teachings of Socrates (the main character) as told by Plato. As is emphasized in the text, death is the main topic of concern for the true philosopher- and that is what is covered here. However, there is nothing morbid about it. This is a message of hope, for Socrates establishes the divinity and immortality of the soul. The good man, he who has purified himself through the love of wisdom (Philosophy) goes to a higher, purer realm to be with like-minded souls and the gods themselves. The bad man also goes to his just reward with those of like character.

_If I was to abstract the core truth here it would be that the true philosopher is always trying to free his soul from the body- for only then is the soul free of the distractions and distortions that can corrupt it and keep it from direct perception of the Ideals (Absolute Truth, Good, Beauty, and Justice.)

_You easily see where the Church borrowed so much of its basic theological underpinnings. In fact, reading this work abolishes forever in your mind the idea that the pre-Christian pagans were in anyway necessarily savage or barbaric in their deepest spiritual beliefs. This is spirituality more pure than anything preached by the Church- and it is supported by reasoned argument and not appeal to empty faith and authority.

_The closing of the dialog is probably the finest depiction in Western literature of the death of a great and good man. You truly concur that Socrates was indeed the wisest and justest and best of all men.

Ultimate things
Socrates is unique among philosophers, not just for his place among the early Greek philosophers, but also for the fact that he is the most famous philosopher to never write his own books. What we know of Socrates comes from contemporary accounts and students, most particularly Plato.

Set in 399 BCE, the Phaedo is a reconstruction of Socrates final conversations with friends on the day he died. We do not know when this dialogue was written, but it was probably before The Republic (Plato's most famous work, also featuring the figure of Socrates). Like The Republic, this dialogue features a well developed theory of Forms -- these are introduced gradually here, slowly filling out the details of each step. This develops the story of the caves idea from Plato's earlier work in epistemological, metaphysical, moral, and semantic terms. Plato also advances the 'imperfection argument' here -- the idea that when we sense something, it is never perfectly the thing we are thinking of, and that idea or standard to which we relate what we see, hear, feel, etc. is tying into a more perfect Form.

However, the idea of the soul is rather less developed here than in The Republic. The soul is simply mind, or intellect - all emotions are here placed as bodily aspects. This is rather Pythagorean in a fashion, that only the soul grasps the perfect Forms, and so should consist of nothing but reasoning ability, for emotions distort and cloud the perceptions and judgments.

In the end of the Phaedo, we witness Socrates drink the hemlock, without fear or trembling, as a philosopher should know the value of life and welcome death with a firm hope. The story is almost religious in nature here.

However, there are other possible readings, and this edition opens these up.This translation is part of a series done by the translators and Focus Publishing of the Plato dialogues.It has an introduction and a glossary of Greek terms, as well as a brief bibliography.The translators avoid a clunky translation by doing some interpretative work, but explain their reasonings in the introduction.They argue in the introduction against many traditional renderings of Phaedo, and as such provide an interesting counterweight to the prevailing editions available.

... Read more

Book Description

Plato, the great philosopher of Athens, was born in 427 BCE. In early manhood an admirer of Socrates, he later founded the famous school of philosophy in the grove Academus. Much else recorded of his life is uncertain; that he left Athens for a time after Socrates' execution is probable; that later he went to Cyrene, Egypt, and Sicily is possible; that he was wealthy is likely; that he was critical of 'advanced' democracy is obvious. He lived to be 80 years old. Linguistic tests including those of computer science still try to establish the order of his extant philosophical dialogues, written in splendid prose and revealing Socrates' mind fused with Plato's thought.

In Laches, Charmides, and Lysis, Socrates and others discuss separate ethical conceptions. Protagoras, Ion, and Meno discuss whether righteousness can be taught. In Gorgias, Socrates is estranged from his city's thought, and his fate is impending. The Apology (not a dialogue), Crito, Euthyphro, and the unforgettable Phaedo relate the trial and death of Socrates and propound the immortality of the soul. In the famous Symposium and Phaedrus, written when Socrates was still alive, we find the origin and meaning of love. Cratylus discusses the nature of language. The great masterpiece in ten books, the Republic, concerns righteousness (and involves education, equality of the sexes, the structure of society, and abolition of slavery). Of the six so-called dialectical dialogues Euthydemus deals with philosophy; metaphysical Parmenides is about general concepts and absolute being; Theaetetus reasons about the theory of knowledge. Of its sequels, Sophist deals with not-being; Politicus with good and bad statesmanship and governments; Philebus with what is good. The Timaeus seeks the origin of the visible universe out of abstract geometrical elements. The unfinished Critias treats of lost Atlantis. Unfinished also is Plato's last work of the twelve books of Laws (Socrates is absent from it), a critical discussion of principles of law which Plato thought the Greeks might accept.

The Loeb Classical Library edition of Plato is in twelve volumes.

Customer Reviews (3)

Plato (Charmides, Alcibiades First & Second, Hipparchus, the Lovers) (Hardcover)
Are you vain and plan to rule the world with good looks and ambition? Well, Alcibiades is the book for you! In Plato's attempt to speak the truth about his teacher Socrates he wrote a little known book called "Alcibiades". In this dialogue Socrates deconstructs the vanity of Alcibiades, and informes the reader that Socrates is not to blame for the loss of the Peloponessian War, but the ambitions of his student Alcibiades. Make no mistake, this is an apology for Socrates from his most prolific student Plato! A must read for all HISTORIAN's. KNOW THE HISTORY BEFORE YOU READ, and only read LOEB CLASSICS to check the translations!!!

Obscure but interesting dialogues
Like most volumes in the Loeb series, the emphasis is not on word-for-word precision in the translation, but on acheiving greater readability in broader terms. Since the original text in ancient Greek is provided on the facing page, the editors assume that anyone with a little knowledge of Greek can supplement the looseness of the translation by referring to the original. And in general, the compromises made in this way are good ones throughout the series. This particular volume brings together some of the more obscure (perhaps even spurious) dialogues in the Platonic corpus, but these are still worth reading. The Charmides, the two Alcibiades dialogues and the Theages certainly repay caareful study. Lamb's translation is faithful enough to give a good sense of the text, and the Greek is included for anyone who wants to get even closer to Plato's thinking.

Useful for the specialist and the student
Like most volumes in the Loeb series, the emphasis is not on word-for-word precision in the translation, but on acheiving greater readability in broader terms. Since the original text in ancient Greek is provided on the facing page, the editors assume that anyone with a little knowledge of Greek can supplement the looseness of the translation by referring to the original. And in general, the compromises made in this way are good ones throughout the series. Bury's translation is one of the better ones in the series, achieving readability without sacrificing fidelity. There are also some fine notes to help with some of the more obscure mathematical arguments. It is also very useful to have the Timaeus and the Critias presented together. The inclusion of the Epistles along with the Cleitophon and Menexenus may seem a little miscellaneous, but these are fine translations of interesting texts. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (1)

One of the great works of philosophy
The Cornford translation of Plato is still one of the standards, even though other translations might well be better in this age.To get to the point: Socrates' greatest student was Plato.In "The Republic," Plato, through the voice of Socrates, provided the keenest metaphor to describe his understanding of the problem cod defining "reality."His allegory of the cave serves as the takeoff point.Socrates describes the situation to Glaucon thus:

[Socrates]: Imagine the condition of men living in a sort of cavernous chamber underground, with an entrance open to the light and a long passage all down the cave.Here they have been from childhood, chained by the leg and also by the neck, so that they cannot move and can see only what is in front of them, because the chains will not let them turn their heads.At some distance higher up is the light of a fire burning behind them; and between the prisoners and the fire is a track with a parapet built along it, like a screen at a puppet-show, which hides the performers while they show their puppets over the top. . .
Now behind this parapet imagine persons carrying along various artificial objects,
including figures of men and animals in wood or stone or other materials, which project
above the parapet.Naturally, some of the persons will be talking, others silent.
[Glaucon]: It is a strange picture. . .and a strange sort of prisoners.
[Socrates]: Like ourselves. . .; for in the first place prisoners so confined would have seen nothing of themselves or one another, except the shadows thrown by the firelight on the wall of the cave facing them, would they?. . .And they would have seen as little of the objects carried past. . .Now, if they could talk to one another, would they not suppose that their words referred only to those passing shadows which they saw?
[Glaucon]: Necessarily.
[Socrates]: And suppose their prison had an echo from the wall facing them?When one of the people crossing behind them spoke, they could only suppose that the sound came from the shadow passing before their eyes. . .In every way, then, such prisoners would recognize as reality nothing but the shadows of those artificial objects.

Next, Plato has Socrates examine what happens if someone is taken from the cave out into the light of day.This person then comes to understand that all is illusion and shadows in the cave--whereas earlier that person had defined the images as reality.In this sense, through education, one could come to see reality and escape the confines of the cave.And when that person would re-enter the cave, he would realize the nature if illusions and be able to try to illuminate with his (or her) wisdom the lives of the people in the cave.This, of course, would be difficult since the denizens of that dark region would not themselves have directly experienced the light of knowledge.

Who is best able to see what is outside of the cave?The philosophers, of course.Plato believes that there are absolutes, "forms," out there in the "real world."Circles that we humans craft can never equal the ideal type "out there," what we might call "circularity."There is an abstract idea of circularity, the perfect circle, the essence of circleness.This is the truth of the object.Only through training can a person begin to understand and appreciate these forms, these ideal types.Only those whose passion and talent is the pursuit of knowledge and who can come to possess wisdom are able to see these "forms."Only then can the subject properly "see" the object, in this case circularity.Note, in contrast, the arguments by the Sophists that the subject is incapable of properly perceiving and understanding reality--even if there is a reality to be apprehended!

And, in his metaphor of gold, silver, and bronze, Plato makes this even more explicit.Each person, he claims, is dominated by one of three elements--appetite (bronze), courage (silver), and wisdom (gold).It is in our nature at birth which one of these characterizes each of us.Only those whose central core is gold can ever hope to see the forms and understand the absolute truth that exists.The rest are, in effect, condemned to a life in the cave.Education is needed to take the raw material within a person and shape that individual's capacity to come to see truth, to apprehend the forms or ideal types.

In the end, then, only a few can ever come to know reality.And it takes them much of their lives before they are adequately enough trained to accomplish this Olympian goal.It is unsurprising, of course, that Plato argues that these few, these philosopher-kings (or queens, since he accepts that women may be capable of these same feats of intellectual insight), should also become the rulers of the ideal society.That is the nature of his "Republic."

This is one of the great works of political philosophy.Its assumption that there is a "special class" suited to rule is open to question. His elitism will not sit well with many readers. The belief that humans can apprehend objective reality is also open to question.His sense that individuals are predestined to serve as "producers," "auxiliaries," or "philosopher kings/queens" (yes, he felt that women might become leaders, an unusual conclusion for the time) will not convince many contemporary readers.However, this is one of the standard translations and provides a credible entrée to one of Plato's greatest works.
... Read more

Book Description
This is a commentary on selected texts of Plato concerned with poetry: the Ion and relevant sections of the Republic. It is the first commentary to present these texts together in one volume, and the first in English on Republic 2 and 3 and Ion for nearly 100 years. The introduction sets Plato's views in their Greek context and outlines their influence on later aesthetic thought. An important feature of the commentary is its exploration of the ambivalence of Plato's pronouncements through an analysis of his own skill as a writer. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (1)

must know Greek for this commentary edition
Nice text but the commentary will abruptly and frequently interupt itself with a Greek word and expect that you know it.

This is normal if you read plenty of books that scrutinize translation, but the word is usually explained, French or German, etc.For some reason the "commentary" does not provide the translation of the word it describes.If it did I would not be returning it.

For instance:"He describes the vital link between poetry as hhurjdofds, its significance in tuyrugkjhl.This is important because gjhahu means what you needed to know but wont be told here".

Not a working mans Ion.Be advised.

Intro is well written, Greek language version of Plato, but no complete, English translation of featured works, which is unfortunate.If it had an English translation of the work, I'd keep it. ... Read more

Book Description
Atlantis was first introduced by the Greek philosopher Plato in two "dialogues" he wrote in the fourth century B.C. His tale of a great empire that sank beneath the waves has sparked thousands of years of debate over whether Atlantis really existed. But did Plato mean his tale as history, or just as a parable to help illustrate his philosophy? In The Atlantis Dialogue, you'll find everything Plato said about Atlantis, in the context he intended. Now you can read and judge for yourself!Download Description
Everything Plato said about the lost continent of Atlantis. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (7)

From a Theatrical point of view
I enjoyed the dialogues immensely, however, one who is looking for a more in depth look into Plato's philosopies on this "Utopic Society, Atlantis", this is not the book.From a theatrical perspective it is great fun and the imagination takes over.

The Atlantis Dialogue: A Handy Primer
The first best thing to do when seriously curious about a legend like Atlantis is to become familiar with the source materials from which it sprang, in order to expose later embellishments. Enhancements added over time commonly render otherwise believable original accounts into fanciful yarns, believable only as myths. (Sorting out the embellishments from legitimate research findings is another task.) This book presents that source account; the whole and nothing but. It is much like an archaeological find; a genuine relic dug up.A bit pricey for its size; its main sellig point is convenience: Quick, easy, portable reference, without the bulk of the full dialogues; and its slim enough to fit into a notebook. The editor seems to hint of bias in the introduction; but, the text itself is plain and free of italics, paraphrasing, and other editors' devices, and is not a new translation. To me, this oldest version reads like a new one. I found no mention of lasers, energy vortices, or power crystals. I did find an eerily familiar description of a civilization whose construction and archetectural achievements and innovations were no more astounding, and certainly no less, than those of the Egyptians, Chinese, Romans, Maya, or Inca, most of which remain equally mystifying. I was far more intrigued by the plausibility of this story than by the modern myth it has become. Atlant