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Many of the earliest books, particularly those dating back to the 1900s and before, are now extremely scarce and increasingly expensive. We are republishing these classic works in affordable, high quality, modern editions, using the original text and artwork. ... Read more

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Great for the mind
Great for thinking time.Shows that nothing changes in life.Thoughts are the same. ... Read more

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THE APOLOGY OF SOORATES. I KNOW not, 0 Athenians I how far you have been influenced by my accusers: for my part, in Ijstening to them I almost forgot myself, so plausible were their arguments: however, so to speak, they have said nothing true. But of the many falsehoods which they uttered I wondered at one of them especiailly, that in which -they said that you ought to be on your guard lest you should be deceived by'me, as being eloquent in speech. For tha.t ,they a.re not ashamedof being forthwith convicted by me in fact, when I shall show that I am not by any means eloquent, this seemed. to me the most shameless thing in them, unless indeed they caJl him. eloquent who sp...e...a....k.. --s. the truth. For, if they mean ~ . this, then I ivould allow that I am an orator! but not after their faihlon:" for-ihei;iS" i-a&~~-ha.~e said nothing true; but from me you shall h~ the whole truth. Not indeed, Athenians, argumentS highly wrought, as theirs were, with choice phr

Table of Contents

OONTENTS; 1'1 ??; INTRODUCTION , ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? vii; THE - POLOGY OF SOCRATES ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ' 18; n"'TBODUorION 'rO TD CRrro ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 49; CRITO; OR, THE DUTY OF A CITIZEN ? ? ? 51; INTBODUcmON TO TlIE Paamo ? ? ? 70; PH £DO ; OR, THE IMMORTALITY OF THE SOUL 78

About the Publisher

Forgotten Books is a publisher of historical writings, such as: Philosophy, Classics, Science, Religion, History, Folklore and Mythology.

Forgotten Books' Classic Reprint Series utilizes the latest technology to regenerate facsimiles of historically important writings. Careful attention has been made to accurately preserve the original format of each page whilst digitally enhancing the difficult to read text. Read books online for free at www.forgottenbooks.org ... Read more

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Great Collection
This magnificent compilation has three Plato writings:"Apology," "Crito," and "Phaedo." Though apparently early works and not as complex or philosophically influential as later ones, they are immensely important in portraying Socrates' trial and death. They are our clearest picture of the historical Socrates and would be invaluable for this alone. Indeed, I have read hundreds - perhaps thousands - of books, and this is one of my ten or so favorites, mostly because of how moving the depiction of the great man's last days is. The story of Socrates' Apology and last moments is part of world literature's very fabric, an immortal part of Western cultural heritage. Anyone who wants to learn about Socrates should start here. However, the works have great value even aside from this; a few have indeed questioned their historical veracity. This does not affect their philosophical, literary, and political worth, which is of the highest, making the book doubly essential.

"Apology" is Plato's least philosophical and most unrepresentative work but arguably his most important and is among many readers' favorites, including mine. The book's title is misleading in that this is prose rather than dialogue; it purports to be Socrates' self-defense at his trial. It is historically priceless if so, as it gives his last public statements and some background about his life and the lead up to the trial. Even if not, it is of immense worth as a passionate, sound defense of individualism and free speech; its timeless evocation of these all-important concepts is forever associated with Socrates and the main reason he has been immortalized. The work also piercingly examines the often vast law/conscience gap and is thus an early higher law document. Finally, it is a sort of mini-dialogue in itself touching on and in several ways tying up classic Socrates/Plato themes like the nature of piety and goodness, responsibility toward the gods and the state, interpersonal relations, and life vs. death issues. It sums up Socrates and perhaps Plato better than any other work.

"Crito" is a possibly partly historical account of the title character visiting Socrates in jail to inform him that he is able to escape via bribe; Socrates famously says that he accepts his sentence and argues down contrary pleas. This gives incredible potential insight into Socrates, in many ways telling us more about his character and thought than a full biography ever could. Again, though, it transcends this philosophically and otherwise and is particularly relevant politically. It also examines the law/conscience gap and gives further background on Socrates but is notable above all as a very early example of the social contract theory of government. This is an astonishing example of how advanced Plato was, as the theory is generally considered to have been founded by Thomas Hobbes nearly a millennium later. Even more amazingly, it is put forth more clearly and persuasively here than perhaps anywhere else, making the dialogue essential for anyone interested in political theory.

"Phaedo" ostensibly details Socrates' last moments, including his last look at his wife and child, his last dialogue, his last words to friends, and his actual death. A large part of Socrates' image comes from this, and its potential historical value is inconceivable, though its historicity can easily be doubted since the work itself strongly suggests that Plato was not there. Even so, it is likely accurate in regard to the things that really matter and certainly a fine account of how it very well could have been. It is extremely moving; shot through with pathos, it is one of the most affecting things I have ever read. One can surely not read it without being overcome by emotion; I can hardly even think of it without misty eyes. Anyone who respects and admires this central Western civilization figure will be profoundly touched; his famous last words seem comic out of context but are very much otherwise here, telling us much about Socrates and moving us yet further. This would be one of the greatest works of all-time if it had no other aspect, but it is also a fine dialogue appropriately dealing mostly with death. Plato examines perennial questions like the soul's immortality and metempsychosis very thoroughly and thought-provokingly, and the conclusion - unsurprisingly, given the circumstances - has uncharacteristic certainty. It may not convince our cynical, empiricist, science-loving, twentieth century-surviving age, but the argument is certainly well-made and in many ways admirable. The dialogue touches on other important subjects also and is generally seen as the culmination of Plato's early, Socrates-centered thought.

It is important to realize that these four works were not originally published together, but the trial and death connection means they are often collected. There are many such editions, but this is among the least expensive and one of the most widely available, making it ideal for most. That said, some editions - e.g., Dover's Trial and Death of Socrates, which is even cheaper - also have "Euthyphro." The ever-important translation issue must also be kept in mind. It goes without saying that anyone who cares about intellectual issues, especially applied ones, must know Plato, as should anyone who wants to be even basically well-read. However, this is far easier said than done for most; he is so different from what now passes for literature, to say nothing of pop culture, that he is virtually inaccessible to general readers. Yet the importance of persevering cannot be overemphasized; the payoff is well worth the effort. As nearly always in such cases, reading him becomes far easier after the initial difficulty; no attentive reader will ever think Plato easy reading, but he is utterly absorbing once we get used to his style. He has a near-poetic beauty that all agree has never even been remotely approached in philosophy, and such mesmerizing prose is rare in any genre. His dialogues are an incredible form at once intellectually and aesthetically pleasing - an inspired combination that has perhaps never been bettered; many have appropriated it, but none have matched it. All this means that picking the right translation is probably more important with Plato than any other writer. For the average reader, the more recent, the better is generally true, though older translations like W. H. D. Rouse's and Benjamin Jowett's are still very accessible. The important thing is to read Plato in some form, and those who happen on a translation that does not work for them should keep trying until their mind opens in a truly new way - and once done, it will never close again.

All told, though this edition is not the best for all, anyone wanting an inexpensive Plato/Socrates primer could hardly do better.
... Read more

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Have breakfast with Socrates, go to work with Nietzsche, head to the gym with Foucault, then have sex with Ovid (or Simone de Beauvoir).

Former Oxford Philosophy Fellow Robert Rowland Smith whisks you through an ordinary day with history's most extraordinary thinkers, explaining what they might have to say about your routine. From waking up in the morning through traveling to work, shopping, eating, going to a party, falling asleep, and dreaming, Smith connects our most mundane habits to the wider world of ideas.

Start with waking up: What does it really mean to be awake? How do we know we're not still dreaming? Descartes argues that if you're able to doubt whether you're awake, you are at least thinking, and so you probably exist -- no small achievement for first thing in the morning. Or take going to the gym: As you toil on the treadmill, is your panting a sign of virtue or of vice, of healthy exertion or of unhealthy narcissism? Working out is a version of what Max Weber called the Protestant work ethic -- a kind of spiritual exercise, it also leads to worldly vanity.

With dry wit and marvelous invention, Smith draws on philosophy, literature, art, politics, and psychology to wake us up to a stunning range of ideas about how to live. Neither breakfast, lunch, nor dinner will ever be the same again. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (3)

hard read
hard reading to say the least. I was an english major and even have a masters so i know good writing. His sentence structure, run on sentences and language is just difficult and takes away from the pleasure of his message. Also, i kept looking for some redeeming value to his ranting and opinions on life and it just never comes. iI had to give up the book three quarters through. Left it in my office kitchen hoping someone else might get the message and enjoy it. I don't however recomend it. Whew !

More Enlightening than at Tiffany's
Philosophy is one of those subjects that, like the Greeks who invented it, has an aura of mystery, academia, and gravitas surrounding it. While we may respect philosophers, we don't quite understand what it is they do or why it is important. This is a problem that philosophers have, vainly, been trying to overcome since Plato. But the love of wisdom is not only for philosophers, it is for everyone. Living the best life is available to us all. This is the notion around which Robert Rowland Smith has built his new book, //Breakfast with Socrates//. Smith takes us through a typical day and uses such simple tasks as getting up in the morning, commuting to work, playing hooky, and cooking dinner to introduce and expound upon such questions as what does it mean to be good, how living is a struggle not only of all against all but also against the self, and how technology makes us more human. Smith's average day also acquaints us with such luminaries as Nietzsche, Sartre, Jung, Mill, Sontag, Freud, Socrates, Machiavelli, Marx, and others. //Breakfast with Socrates// is a wonderfully easy introduction to philosophy that leaves the reader better than she started and seeking more.

Reviewed by Jonathon Howard

The unexamined life
In 'Breakfast with Socrates', subtitled A Philosophy of Everyday Life, former Oxford Fellow Robert Roland Smith takes various elements of a `typical' day and provides insight into what an eclectic collection of thinkers might have to offer to make these mundane routines more interesting. After all, as Socrates declared `the unexamined life is not worth living'.

My first thought was that Roland Smith leads an enviously full life since his typical day includes not only waking up, getting ready, travelling to work, being at work, taking a bath, cooking and eating, watching TV, reading a book and falling asleep, but he also manages to find time to go to the doctor, have lunch with his parents, bunk off, go shopping, head to the gym, book a holiday, go to a party, have an argument with his partner, have sex and book a holiday - which he no doubt needs after all that. It's a wonder he finds time to think at all with all that going on. It's a clever structure for the book though.

Both titles to the book are potentially a bit misleading. Socrates makes very limited appearances (the author suggests that the book may as well have been titled `Having a Bagel with Hegel' which appealed more to the inner Dr Seuss in me) and Roland Smith does not limit himself to traditional philosophers for inspiration. Here you will also find an eclectic mix of psychoanalysts, sociologists, painters, psychologists, political writers, anthropologists and writers as well as philosophers to offer their thoughts.

There is an old adage that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but with philosophy a little knowledge can also be very interesting, particularly when you are dealing with philosophers like French Foucault and Derrida whose works I have always failed to understand beyond the first sentence. Roland Smith does his best to simplify and provide snippets of thought that make you see things just a bit differently. To a large extent Roland Smith is able to lead the casual reader through some of these ideas.

Indeed, he comes over as a very knowledgeable and affable guide. His points of reference range from his academic studies, to Shakespeare, `Jaws`, `The Godfather`, 'Sex in the City` as well as authors such as Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Lewis Carroll, and Nabokov`. For the most part it's largely jargon-free (or at least effective at explaining the jargon used) and infused with amusing asides - although these can make some of the sentences long and difficult to read.

For me, some chapters worked better than others - he is at his best when he is being more playful than when he gets bogged down in some apparently random trains of thought. At his party, he takes his theme from the 'It's My Party and I'll Cry If I Want To` opening and the eloping Johnny and Judy, while on discussing an argument with a partner, he takes the example of George and Martha in Albee's `Whose Afraid of Virginia Woolf`. When he doesn't quite have the same springboard (in the chapters on visiting the doctor or the lunch with parents, for example) it works less well I felt.

The book is much in the style of other 'popular philosophy for all' like Alain de Botton although the publishers have not helped Roland Smith's cause by the format of the book which is much more scholarly in terms of the layout and font than the glossy approach adopted by de Botton's publishers.

Ultimately though, it's hard not to recommend someone who provides you with an argument for not going to the gym, for promoting the power of using the TV remote control and letting your parents pay for lunch! ... Read more

Product Description
The Last Days of Socrates, written by legendary author Plato, is widely considered to be one of the greatest classic texts of all time. This great classic will surely attract a whole new generation of readers. For many, The Last Days of Socrates is required reading for various courses and curriculums. And for others who simply enjoy reading timeless pieces of classic literature, this gem by Plato is highly recommended. Published by Classic Books International and beautifully produced, The Last Days of Socrates would make an ideal gift and it should be a part of everyone's personal library. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (12)

Trial of Socrates
Although book was labeled as used, it was not mentioned that the front cover was pretty much destroyed. Other than that the book is fine. However, shipping took quite a while.

Free soup for Socrates!
The life and legacy of Socrates can be interpreted in many different ways, and have been so interpreted. While that is frustrating, it could be argued that it's also inevitable. The words and deeds of great men have different effects on different people. Most scholars base their accounts of Socrates on Plato's dialogues, especially the four dialogues included in this volume: "Euthyphro", "Apology", "Crito" and "Phaedo". They deal with Socrates' trial, execution and death. And no, they don't answer the eternal questions. Rather, they raise more questions than they answer. But then, that's the point!

What makes Socrates so important? The reason, of course, is his philosophy. The whole point of philosophy is to reject tradition and revelation as automatic sources of knowledge, to be taken simply on faith. Instead, human reason is paramount. True, philosophy doesn't *necessarily* reject tradition and revelation, but it does say that such sources of knowledge should be scrutinized by reason. In this sense, philosophy is subversive and radical. At least in a society gone terribly wrong... I mean, who would need philosophy if society had been perfect?

Socrates wasn't the first philosopher, nor even necessarily the "best" one. The reason why his name has been associated with the philosophical endeavour is, of course, the story of his life and above all his death. Socrates became the first known martyr of philosophy, placing his conscience and convictions above politic. Socrates showed how dangerous philosophy can be, by questioning both the oligarchic regime of the Thirty Tyrants in Athens, and the later democracy. He was the perennial dissident, the man who questioned everyone and everything. Ironically, it was the democrats who had him railroaded and executed. A warning for the future?

I don't think Socrates was necessarily a "radical" in the modern sense of that term. He seems to have mingled in high society, and some of his friends and disciples had connections with the oligarchic regime. Neither his disciple Plato nor Plato's pupil Aristotle were democrats, not even by Greek standards. Socrates didn't seem to believe that society could be changed, and therefore tended to avoid politics, except when he was duty bound as a citizen to perform political tasks (he also fought as a soldier). In some ways, Socrates actually resembled a guru. His teachings were oral, he had a circle of admirers and disciples, and he may have imparted somewhat different teachings to each of them. There are also hints at a fundamentally religious worldview, as when Socrates says that a little god or daemon were giving him advice, when he talks of reincarnation and Heaven in "Phaedo", or when he takes seriously the oracular statements of the priestess at Delphi.

Yet, by his bold questioning of established politics, ethics and religion, Socrates nevertheless showed the radical potential of philosophy and rational discourse. On a more somber note, the trial and execution of Socrates also shows that some people, even in a democracy, simply can't stand the truth.

Free soup for Socrates? Still today, many people, rulers and commoners alike, would consider that proposal to be very provocative indeed.

Yawn
I am probably alone in thinking that Socrates was a pompous windbag and that the citizens of Athens deserve a small award for putting and end to his tedious speeches. This book is pure propaganda suggesting that Socrates was a saintly figure martyred by the evil mob. They had concocted ridiculous charges of corrupting the youth of Athens and then had him convicted in a kangaroo court.

The truth is of course more complex. Athens had been a democracy. Socrates and Plato were enemies of the democracy believing in rule by the rich. After the defeat of Athens by Sparta the democratic government was replaced by an oligarchy who used repression to maintain control. It was this government that was supported by Plato and Socrates. Both were in reality traitors to their country in much the same way that Pinochet was a traitor to Chile. After the corrupt rule of Plato's friends was overthrown democracy was re-instituted and Socrates was put on trial for his role in forming the views of those who destroyed the democratic system.

Plato spent his life writing crude anti-democratic propaganda such as this book. His philosophical system of government was that of a totalitarian society run by un-elected guardians. Popper the famous 20th Century Philosopher saw him as one of the forebears of the closed society along with Marx and Lennin.

If this book is to be believed and there is no particular reason to see it as accurate or truthful then Socrates bought his own fate upon himself. He had the chance of exile and he also had the chance to suggest an alternative punishment.

Despite his role as a traitor surely Socrates deserved death because of his life spent as a tedious bore. One cannot read any of the dialogues featuring his alleged sayings without seeing contrivance and he mis-recording of his opponents. At the conclusion of this book one can put it aside and feel a certain sense of satisfaction that the people of Athens did the right thing.

Philosopher at bay
In Athens, during the fifth century B.C., the Sophists were wise men.They were not philosophers, or scientists, they were itinerant teachers.Socrates was a moralist and a religious man.Plato was forty years younger than Socrates.THE APOLOGY and the CRITO are founded on fact, shaped by Plato's artistry, (he was a poet, also).

Socrates was indicted for impiety.A public action was brought against him as a menace to society.Orators and poets disliked Socrates's influence on the young.He asserted in THE APOLOGY that the true champion of justice must confine himself to private life.Socrates received the death penalty.He did not think he should stoop to servility because he was in danger.

Death is either annihilation or migration of the soul.Crito visited Socrates in prison.Crito urged him to escape.He claimed that Socrates was throwing away his life when he might save it.Socrates argued with Crito that he had no problem with the laws and, thus, he had a duty to be law-biding.Aiding Socrates's escape would be a breach of faith.

PHAEDO is the last conversation.Socrates believed a man should be cheerful in the face of death.A love of wisdom, not the body, makes a person cheerful.Soul resembles the divine, body resembles what is mortal.No soul which has not practiced philosophy may attain the divine nature.Pythagoreans have a theory of the soul.The soul is imperishable.Friends were admonished by Socrates to just be themselves.The philosopher faced death handily.

Amazing and wonderful, the three titles are a compelling work.

How is one to rate...
...a 2400 year old work of philosophy?The question, itself, is not without philosophic interest.

Rather than presume to judge Plato, or Socrates, or Plato-as-Socrates, I will simply add my own voice to the chorus of general opinion and say: TLDoS is as resonant and, in its way, relevant, today as it was so many aeons ago.Though hardly a work of unassailable logic it is, nonetheless, a deeply thoughtful, imaginative, and passionately argued one.As I made my way through it, I had to remind myself, from time to time, that what I had before me was a work of ancient literature.Tredennick and Tarrant are to be commended for their eminently readable translation.As I am not a classicist, I cannot speak to the quality of the translation, but if the quality of the endnotes serves as any indication, I would venture to guess that the translation is first-rate.

A very complex Socrates -- as remembered, as imagined, and perhaps also as invented -- emerges from the four dialogues in TSDoS.That this same Socrates still has power to reach across the ages to confound, inspire, frustrate, entertain, and teach is as sure a testament to his legacy, and to the legacy of classical Greek philosophy, as any.

Read and learn. ... Read more

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Customer Reviews (66)

The Journeys of Socrates
Great book. Had to fight my 2 teenagers off to get to read it.Very inspirational.

The Journeys of Socrates
I first recommend reading The Peaceful Warrior.After that, read the Journeys of Socrates....It is AWESOME!!

fan of Dan Millman
I'd read "The Way of the Peaceful Warrior many years ago and recommended it to many, many people. I didn't realize he'd written this prequill until I ordered them for my granddaughter who want to become a warrior. The writing is beautiful and the message universal. Now I will order all three books for the new generation that can benefit as much as those that have come before.

An Outstanding Tome
Having read "Way of a Peaceful Warrior" years ago, I quickly bought "The Journeys of Socrates" but it sat on the shelf unread. The Universe has a way of working things out so recently I noticed the book in a box of books still packed from a move. I decided it was time to read.

The Universe was correct.

Though I had trouble getting into the beginning of the book, things turned around and soon I was drawn into the journey. The beginning tells the history of Socrates and at first I didn't see the relevance and wondered where "the good stuff" was; I later realized that this history was a key part of understanding Socrates, where he'd come from and what he overcame to become the person he was at the end of the book.

Socrates' journey is so much like many in life. We hold on to anger and resentments and they overcome us, possess us. We hold them for years just as Socrates did. I only hope that more in the world learn to grow, evolve and let go of such anger and resentment to move on to the next level of themselves.

Millman's prequel to "Way of a Peaceful Warrior" is an outstanding tome depicting Socrates' path to becoming a peaceful warrior. The book is filled with guidance and truth. I underlined many sentences throughout my reading.

Amazing
We have lost all resilience when we compare Socrate's life with how some of us live! I have read the book twice now. This last time for the spiritual book group that I run. The book illustrates that we as humans need a long time to bring about the changes within ourselves that many of us so desire. We have to dig deep within ourselves and be prepared to face all our demons in order to achieve the change we wish to see within ourselves.
Dr. Gunta Krumins-Caldwell author of On Silver Wings ... Read more

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The third edition of The Trial and Death of Socrates presents G. M. A. Grube's distinguished translations, as revised by John Cooper for Plato, Complete Works. A number of new or expanded footnotes are also included along with a Select Bibliography. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (15)

GARBAGE
This book was listed as "LIKE NEW."It is garbage.....there is writing all over it. The back cover is bent, pages are ripped and it there is so much writing you can barely read it with all the red.

Useful, got the Job done
This was the book necessary for my introduction to political philosophy @ Harvard. My professor said we needed it for the next week and thanks to the next day shipping guarante I received it the next day mid afternoon. This book was only useful to us for Plato's "The Apology" but I'm sure to keep this on my shelf and read the rest od Socrates's trial. Overall it's worth the 6 dollars it's just like buying a big Mac, but you get to enjoy this one longer.

One of the Greatest Books Ever
This magnificent compilation has four Plato writings:"Euthyphro," "Apology," "Crito," and "Phaedo." Though apparently early works and not as complex or philosophically influential as later ones, they are immensely important in portraying Socrates' trial and death. They are our clearest picture of the historical Socrates and would be invaluable for this alone. Indeed, I have read hundreds - perhaps thousands - of books, and this is one of my ten or so favorites, mostly because of how moving the depiction of the great man's last days is. The story of Socrates' Apology and last moments is part of world literature's very fabric, an immortal part of Western cultural heritage. Anyone who wants to learn about Socrates should start here. However, the works have great value even aside from this; a few have indeed questioned their historical veracity. This does not affect their philosophical, literary, and political worth, which is of the highest, making the book doubly essential.

"Euthyphro" is the least important work philosophically and probably not meant as historical, but it is still worthwhile. It examines the important "What is piety?" question and, like many Platonic dialogues, does not have anything like a definite conclusion. Some find this aspect frustrating, and it is certainly beguiling, but those who have experience with it come to love it. Like Socrates, Plato is after all too intelligent to give hard and fast answers; in all likelihood, he knows there are not any. What he does is far more important - lead us to think for ourselves and come to our own conclusions if we can. "Euthyphro" is a good, if relatively minor, example. It also introduces what philosophers call the Euthyphro Problem; here it is "Are good things good because they are loved by the gods, or are they loved by the gods because they are good?," but it has been restated in innumerable forms. This is in some ways an unrepresentative dialogue and thus an unfortunate one to begin the book, because it seems to prove the stereotype that philosophy obsesses over inane, probably unanswerable questions of no practical use. The Euthyphro Problem seems truly asinine as given - or, in our post-postmodern world, simply irrelevant. However, we can begin to see its importance when we replace "good" and "loved by the gods" with whatever seems most pressing. Such is after all the kind of thing Plato wanted; we are not supposed to read in narrow literal terms but use him as a starting point for our path to wisdom. This is an instructive example of how Plato has been immensely influential far beyond his apparent significance.

"Apology" is Plato's least philosophical and most unrepresentative work but arguably his most important and is among many readers' favorites, including mine. The book's title is misleading in that this is prose rather than dialogue; it purports to be Socrates' self-defense at his trial. It is historically priceless if so, as it gives his last public statements and some background about his life and the lead up to the trial. Even if not, it is of immense worth as a passionate, sound defense of individualism and free speech; its timeless evocation of these all-important concepts is forever associated with Socrates and the main reason he has been immortalized. The work also piercingly examines the often vast law/conscience gap and is thus an early higher law document. Finally, it is a sort of mini-dialogue in itself touching on and in several ways tying up classic Socrates/Plato themes like the nature of piety and goodness, responsibility toward the gods and the state, interpersonal relations, and life vs. death issues. It sums up Socrates and perhaps Plato better than any other work.

"Crito" is a possibly partly historical account of the title character visiting Socrates in jail to inform him that he is able to escape via bribe; Socrates famously says that he accepts his sentence and argues down contrary pleas. This gives incredible potential insight into Socrates, in many ways telling us more about his character and thought than a full biography ever could. Again, though, it transcends this philosophically and otherwise and is particularly relevant politically. It also examines the law/conscience gap and gives further background on Socrates but is notable above all as a very early example of the social contract theory of government. This is an astonishing example of how advanced Plato was, as the theory is generally considered to have been founded by Thomas Hobbes nearly a millennium later. Even more amazingly, it is put forth more clearly and persuasively here than perhaps anywhere else, making the dialogue essential for anyone interested in political theory.

"Phaedo" ostensibly details Socrates' last moments, including his last look at his wife and child, his last dialogue, his last words to friends, and his actual death. A large part of Socrates' image comes from this, and its potential historical value is inconceivable, though its historicity can easily be doubted since the work itself strongly suggests that Plato was not there. Even so, it is likely accurate in regard to the things that really matter and certainly a fine account of how it very well could have been. It is extremely moving; shot through with pathos, it is one of the most affecting things I have ever read. One can surely not read it without being overcome by emotion; I can hardly even think of it without misty eyes. Anyone who respects and admires this central Western civilization figure will be profoundly touched; his famous last words seem comic out of context but are very much otherwise here, telling us much about Socrates and moving us yet further. This would be one of the greatest works of all-time if it had no other aspect, but it is also a fine dialogue appropriately dealing mostly with death. Plato examines perennial questions like the soul's immortality and metempsychosis very thoroughly and thought-provokingly, and the conclusion - unsurprisingly, given the circumstances - has uncharacteristic certainty. It may not convince our cynical, empiricist, science-loving, twentieth century-surviving age, but the argument is certainly well-made and in many ways admirable. The dialogue touches on other important subjects also and is generally seen as the culmination of Plato's early, Socrates-centered thought.

It is important to realize that these four works were not originally published together, but the trial and death connection means they are often collected. There are many such editions, but this is the least expensive and probably the most widely available, making it ideal for most; it also has extra value in that many versions lack "Euthyphro."

The ever-important translation issue must also be kept in mind. It goes without saying that anyone who cares about intellectual issues, especially applied ones, must know Plato, as should anyone who wants to be even basically well-read. However, this is far easier said than done for most; he is so different from what now passes for literature, to say nothing of pop culture, that he is virtually inaccessible to general readers. Yet the importance of persevering cannot be overemphasized; the payoff is well worth the effort. As nearly always in such cases, reading him becomes far easier after the initial difficulty; no attentive reader will ever think Plato easy reading, but he is utterly absorbing once we get used to his style. He has a near-poetic beauty that all agree has never even been remotely approached in philosophy, and such mesmerizing prose is rare in any genre. His dialogues are an incredible form at once intellectually and aesthetically pleasing - an inspired combination that has perhaps never been bettered; many have appropriated it, but none have matched it. All this means that picking the right translation is probably more important with Plato than any other writer. For the average reader, the more recent, the better is generally true, though older translations like Jowett's and Rouse's are still very accessible. The important thing is to read Plato in some form, and those who happen on a translation that does not work for them should keep trying until their mind opens in a truly new way - and once done, it will never close again.

The Trial and Death of Socrates (3rd Edition) by Plato, John M. Cooper
This purchase saved me a lot of money compared to the price in the campus bookstore.

Expensive
Of the eight books I bought, it was the most expensive (cost per page) for all that I received. Although it was in great condition, so were some of the others. ... Read more

Product Description
After the execution of Socrates in 399 BC, a number of his followers wrote dialogues featuring him as the protagonist and, in so doing, transformed the great philosopher into a legendary figure. Xenophon's portrait is the only one other than Plato's to survive, and while it offers a very personal interpretation of Socratic thought, it also reveals much about the man and his philosophical views. In 'Socrates' Defence' Xenophon defends his mentor against charges of arrogance made at his trial, while the 'Memoirs of Socrates' also starts with an impassioned plea for the rehabilitation of a wronged reputation. Along with 'The Estate-Manager', a practical economic treatise, and 'The Dinner-Party', a sparkling exploration of love, Xenophon's dialogues offer fascinating insights into the Socratic world and into the intellectual atmosphere and daily life of ancient Greece. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (14)

A wonderful book!
This is a very, very different portrait of Socrates from the one painted by Plato. Probably, if you are considering buying this book, you have studied Plato at least somewhat.Plato's and Xenophon's accounts of Socrates are views of the man from totally different angles.I very much enjoyed Xenophon's representation of Socrates as a character.There are some extremely funny stories.I especially loved the story of Socrates' "philosophical" encounter with the courtesan Theodote.I confess, though, that after reading this book I understand the role of homosexuality in Greek culture even less than I did before.But that bafflement, too, is part of the interest of the book.

Like others writing here, I like Xenophon as a writer much better than Robin Waterfield does -- or at least, I like Tredennick's and Waterfield's Xenophon much better than Waterfield himself likes Xenophon in Greek.

I thought Waterfield's introductions were excellent, but I recommend reading them after you read the original material, not before.

I don't know Greek, so I can't vouch for the accuracy of the translations by Tredennick and Waterfield, but I found them to be graceful and a pleasure to read.They always felt stylistically just right.

Like others writing here, I was frustrated by the lack of precise line numbering, and the lack of a note on the text.

Physically: the paper is cheap, but the font is large and clear.The book is relatively comfortable to hold open (always an issue with paperbacks).

This book definitely makes me want to read more of Xenophon.

[Disclaimer: I did not buy this book from Amazon, but I buy plenty of other books from Amazon.]

Must Read
A must read for all who are in the pursuit of virtue and character development.Classic principles of behavior, no longer popular in today's culture, are detailed in easy to understand language.

Review of Penguin Classics' Dialogues of Xenophon
I really enjoyed the effort Waterfield put into his introductions, both at the very beginning of the collection and before each peice of the collection. His examines the biographical, historical and dramatic aspects of each work with about as much detail as one could manage.

The translations are very readable, and supplemented by footnotes.

One issue: it is impossible to cite from Xenophon with this translation. Each page features of a range from which to cite at the top, but not specific margin numbers (where does 13.1 end and 13.2 begin? the page gives 13.1-14.7)

I believe Hackett is soon publishing this same collection. If I were reading Xenophon in the near future, I would take a look at that collection, which will hopefully have everything in this collection, along with proper margin numbers.

Xenophon, my hero!
I have always admired Xenophon. As a high school student I was in awe at his courage and extraordinary life. He was one tough "hombre." A warrior, a thinker, and a practical man who also knew farming and the equestrian art, he had been a student of Socrates'; in this book he allows us to get an additional glimpse of Socrates, beyond the well known Platonic accounts. The Socratic virtues Xenophon highlights are self-control, self-knowledge, and purity of life. Anyone who is attracted to those virtues will find much inspiration in Xenophon's "Conversations." I did not enjoy very much "The Dinner Party": call me homophobic, but I was never impressed with the Greek fascination for handsome boys. I also found "The Estate Manager" a bit too technical as a sub-urban, middle-class man of the XXI century. All in all, the translator ensured a smooth reading of the texts, for which he should be commended.

Xenophon delivers
I have always admired Xenophon. As a high school student I was in awe at his courage and extraordinary life. He was one tough "hombre." A warrior, a thinker, and a practical man who also knew faming and the equestrian art, he was a student of Socrates; in this book he allows us to get an additional glimpse of Socrates besides the well known Platonic accounts. The Socratic virtues Xenophon highlights are self-control and purity of life. Anyone who is attracted to those virtues will find much inspiration in Xenophon's "Conversations." I did not enjoy very much "The Dinner Party": call me homophobic, but I was never impressed with the Greek fascination for handsome boys. I also found "The Estate Manager" a bit too technical as a sub-urban, middle-class man of the XXI century. All in all, the translators ensured a smooth reading of the texts, for which they should be commended. ... Read more

Product Description
Is abortion a woman's right?When does human life begin?Should we legislate morality?What would happen if the Socrates of old suddenly appeared in modern Athens? Peter Kreeft imagines the dialog that might ensue with three worthy opponents--a doctor, a philosopher and a psychologist--about the arguments surrounding abortion.Kreeft uses Socratic technique to strip away the emotional issues and get to the heart of the rational objections to abortion. Logic joins humor as Socrates challenges the standard rhetoric and passion of the contemporary debate. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (26)

Mr Kreeft is brilliant!
Finally.... a rational approach to this controversial issue. If you care about truth and justice, you simply must read this book.

Easy Read, Excellent Dialogue
Of Kreeft's books, including the Philosophy of Tolkien, Unaborted Socrates was a surprise: An easy read (for philosophy standards) employing the socratic method and an amusing play dialogue infused with humor.

His method is simple, yet very effective in conveying the logical approach to abortion. Not only it is masterful and clever but allows the pro-abortionist to fully develop his argument, only to be met by an utter refutal founded not in emotions or theology but by pure, plain rationality.

A must for any pre-med, current doctor and those who pursue knowledge.

A Hard Read
This is one of those books that will surprise you in many ways. It was not what I was expecting - of course I did not have the subtitle, only the main title at that time. I was expecting a book on philosophy from Peter Kreeft, a professor of Philosophy. But it was three debates on issues surrounding abortion lead by Socrates.

The format is three discussions led by Socorates with three groups of people. The first is with a Dr. Rex Herrod (King Herrod) held in a hospital in Athens in the present time. The second is again with Dr. Rex but also with his friend, a philosopher, Professor Atilla Tarian (Atilla the Hun) who is an ethicist, and it is held at a Philosophy convention. The final is in a Psychiatric ward with "Pop" Syke, (Pop Psychology) the psychologist.

Each debate is written as a mini morality play, like those of classical Greek plays. Each is written as a dialogue and written somewhat tongue in cheek, filled with puns and word plays.

This book was not an easy read, in that the material it deals with is very difficult and very controversial. It raises many questions that most people on both sides of the abortion debate probably do not think about. It is easy to read in that it was written in an easy style and flows nicely.

The main focus of all three debates is when does life begin, and who will speak for the most helpless, the unborn. This is a tough read but one that will not leave the reader unchanged.

A thought provoking read on an important topic
Though parts of this book struck me as cheesy, an abortionist named Dr. Rex Herrod for instance. I think that Peter Kreeft has crafted a good analysis of the arguments around abortion, presenting a fair picture both sides of the argument. It's a short and enjoyable read. Kreeft can be accused at times of using cheesy dialog, but at least his writing remains unbiased and logical.

2 points for Socrates, zero for Keeft
Keeft does a fair job in parts of making Socrates "come alive" on a contemporary issue; that is, he replicates his style in many respects, and conveys much of both the humor, sarcasm, and earnestness with which Socrates argued.There is of course little reason to think the content of his argument is at all related to what the historical Socrates would have believed.This is a relatively minor point.However as an introduction to or serious treatment of arguments about abortions, this work is a travesty.

In the first section "Socrates" debates an abortionist who confessess immediately that he has no idea whether the fetus is a person or not, and does not have a clear definition of a person which he attempts to defend.Unsuprisingly Socrates trashes this position, but this will have little effect upon anyone who has thought seriously about the obvious fact that rational capacity is what most adult humans (including those sleeping, vegging out, or in temporary comas) have, and which human bodies which are brain dead or which have not yet developed brains do not.

In part two Socrates debates a "philosopher" whom we learn right away is a defender of "relativism and utilitarianism."Now either Kreeft is unaware that relativism and utilitarianism are incompatible philosophies, or he naively believes that other people, including real philosophers who defend abortion, are unaware of this.In either case he's wrong on fundamental points, and hence again it is no surprise both that "Socrates" can demolish this "opinion" and also that this has absolutely nothing to do with any serious philosophical defenses of abortion.

About the third section, where Socrates debates a pop psychologist who thinks that feelings are more important than truth, there's little more to say, and the conclusions drawn are obvious.If Keeft's point is that it is easy to knock down straw men, then he has accomplished something, but this is hardly news.If his goal was to argue that the *actual* arguments given by *actual* philosophers or medical professionals on this issue are incorrect, he has missed his target by a mile.Socrates/Kreeft spends most of his time showing that all of the supposed "arguments" for abortion are moot or seriously weakened if the fetus is a person.This is challenged by a few philosophers like Judith Jarvis Thomson or Jane English, whose arguments are simply ignored here.But even if we conceded the point, this simply emphasizes how useless the whole dialogue was because he *never* considers a serious argument that the fetus is, while human, *not* a person, though there are many in the philosophical literature which he could have drawn from here.Don Marquis, John Noonan, and Sidney Callahan have much more serious pro-life arguments in their widely-anthologized articles, which also try to seriously engage actual pro-choice arguments rather than simply ignore them in hopes that nobody will notice, and I would recommend their works over Kreeft's rather fluffy treatment. ... Read more

Product Description
Provides step by step guidance on how to harness Socrates' methods to vastly enhance your own creativity and autonomy. Author shares the seven keys to using one's mind to the utmost. Softcover. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (22)

Disapointed
I was excited about this book but I'm at the middle of it right now and I dont think I will finish it.
Socrates is just an excuse to talk about obvious common sense points of view about everything. It's more another self help book (in the worst sense of this category) using Socrates to market it.
Shallow aproach to one of the biggest thinkers of our civilization.

A brilliant way to quantify and exemplify the teachings of Socrates
I received this book as a gift from someone who knows I love reading Plato's dialogues.Not usually drawn to reading, I hesitated to open this text... to my delight, I was pleasantly surprised with the contents.This book is an amazing text that takes the thoughts and ideas of Socrates and breaks them down into chunks that can be addressed individually within your personal, social, and professional life.This is NOT a teaching methods book; rather, it is a book that offers ways for you to live more like Socrates.I am a teacher, however, and it is very helpful in showing me how to promote inquiry in my working realm, which happens to be the classroom.The structure of the text is such that you can read a few pages and put it down for any amount of time, and pick up right where you left off; it is more of a "workbook" than a "novel", providing outlines, examples, and activities.Direct passages from the dialogues are quoted and little interesting tidbits of info regarding Socrates' works, times, points of view, etc. are offered in an extremely interesting way.I have recommended this book to many people, in all different walks of life.Great for experienced Socrates readers, Socrates novices, general philosophical or even non-philosophical enthusiasts, and everyone in between.

A great read with excellent business application
I was unsure before I read this book exactly how Socrates could help me in my profession, managing people.Now I know don't know why I waited so long to find out.The book is a very easy read,well thought out and full of excellent thought provoking ideas.Although appling Socrate's way may not always be a simple process in life, the more I do use his methods the better I feel and the better my results are. This is a must read for anyone wanting to understand how to be a better person.

If you want to use your mind, read Plato
That's really all I have to say.This is a simple-minded self-help book.It's fine if you want some simple pieces of traditional morality(to thine own self be true, etc.) spun in a vaguely business-speak way.BIt's not so clear why Gross has to hang this stuff on Socrates; arguably, Plato's Socrates was rather more challenging than this.Gross may be inspiring for some readers, and if that's your case, then great.If you really want to learn to think, I'd advise an author who will challenge you rrather more.Such as Plato himself. It's pretty amazing to me that this book got so many stars.

Useless
I bought the book because I would like to engage in the dialogue, often called Socratic Method, with my students and myself. I'm two thirds of the way through Socrates' Way, and I'm yet to learn anything. This is how we pay the price for the convenience of Amazon - I would never have checked this book out of a library or a bookstore. Notes I took from a couple of Intro to Philosophy books I read in junior high contain more relevant detail about the life and philoshophy of Socrates. Any self-help book on living deliberately has more in the way of methodology and practical exercises. I will donate this book to a children's library. "Socrates' Way for Adults" remains yet been written, it seems. Meanwhile, if you are interested in learning more about philosophy and applying it to your daily life, I would recommend Plato, Not Prozac!: Applying Eternal Wisdom to Everyday Problems by Marinoff instead. ... Read more

Product Description
From Socrates To Sartre presents a rousing and readable introduction to the lives, and times of the great philosophers. This thought-provoking book takes us from the inception of Western society Plato's Athens to today when the commanding power of Marxism has captured one third of the world. T.Z. Lavine, Elton Professor of Philosophy at George Washington University, makes philosophy come alive with astonishing clarity to give us a deeper, more meaningful understanding of ourselves and our times. From Socrates To Sartre discusses Western philosophers in terms of the historical and intellectual environment which influenced them, and it connects their lasting ideas to the public and private choices we face in America today From Socrates To Sartre formed the basis for the PBS television series of the same name. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (25)

Reconciliation Counts
I had some complaints.Mind you they were minor.But they were addressed QUICKLY and without hesitation.I am impressed with the expedient customer service.

Easy to read
This book is MUCH easier to get through than the other, drier philosophy books I read for Philosophy 101.

My endorsement
I read this book when I was a senior in high school. It was the single book that really got me into philosophy. It made me feel like I understood it, not just the ideas in isolation, but the general course of philosophy over the centuries. Other introductory surveys that I read had good information but didn't tell an interesting story, and left me feeling like philosophy was just a handful of thinkers who came up with these philosophical systems which you could choose to believe or not --- most often not.

This book avoids this pitfall and tells a very interesting story, from which the reader can say, "Ah, I think I understand why these ideas were formed in relation to previous ideas and historical events." This is far more illuminating and rewarding than: Plato said this, and Descartes said this, and Marx said this, and Sartre said this. It also makes the book an exciting read, as you work progressively through the centuries --- becoming a Platonist, then, no, a Cartesian, then, no, a Marxist! No, an existentialist! And that sort of thing....

Six/seven years later, as I write this, I'm finishing up my Master's thesis in philosophy. Lavine opened up that door for me.

The final chapter is the best part
I completely agree with other reviews that say the book is clearly written and summarizes the six most major Western philospophers in a way that makes their conclusions easily accessible. But these reviews neglect what for me was the best part of the whole book, the 7th and final chapter, "The Contemporary Scene in Philosophy". Here Lavine relates how Wittgenstein reformed the practice of Philosophy and destroyed much of what came before by stating a simple rule: Any statement a Philosopher makes must follow the rules of the language being used to make the statement. This is Linguistic Philosophy. As someone who found much of Philosophy annoying because so many core statements by Descartes, Hegel, Sartre, etc. seemed to be nonsensical, it was a catharsis to find out that Wittgenstein felt the same way, and that he used his rule to categorize much of their work as useless.

This final chapter also shows the continuing tenacity of David Hume's Empiricism and its descendants - Logical Positivism, Analytic Philosophy, and Science. To me, Wittgenstein's rule is the application of the scientific method to Philosophy itself - if a statement is nonsensical according to the rules of the language, there's nothing useful that can come from it. This parallels Hume's rule that if a statement is not testable, then it is also useless.

To me it's sad that I never even heard the name Hume until adulthood, after a friend recommended Lavine's book. I think the United States might be a lot better off if David Hume were taught in public schools as part of a class in critical thinking.

A Masterful Journey Through the Realm of Philosophy
Having struck out in previous efforts to connect with philosophy, I could not have been happier to discover this magnificent work. Professor Lavine combines an intellectual mastery of her subject with an unfailing (and no less important) connection to her reader as she introduces the breathtaking accomplishments and historical context of the great philosophers.

Trifling are criticisms of her failure to mention every philosopher of significance or place equal emphasis on the many (at least a dozen) whose work she does address. The book would lose infinitely more than it would gain by so doing.

Professor Lavine is an extraordinary guide for an extraordinary journey. I am energized and excited by the experience of reading this book. ... Read more

Product Description
Widely adopted for classroom use, this book offers translations of four major works of ancient Greek literature which treat the life and thought of Socrates, focusing particularly on his trial and defense (the platonic dialogues Euthyphro, Apology of Socrates, and Crito) and on the charges against Socrates (Aristophanes' comedy Clouds). This is the only collection of the three Platonic dialogues that also includes Clouds, a work that is fundamental for understanding the thought of Socrates in relation to the Athenian political community and to Greek poetry.

Thomas G. West's introduction provides an overview of the principal themes and arguments of the four works. There are extensive explanatory notes to the translations. For this new edition, Thomas West has revised the introduction and updated the annotated bibliography, which includes the best of the secondary literature on Socrates and on the texts included in this book.

In their translations, the Wests capture successfully the simplicity and vigor of straightforward Greek diction. They strive for as high a degree of accuracy as possible, subordinating concerns for elegance and smoothness to the goal of producing the most faithful and most reliable English versions of these texts. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (8)

I never got my book!
This person is fake and never sent my book!! Dont buy from this person. Amazon doesnt even have an accurate email on file so there is no way to contact them.

a question
I am very interested in reading Plato in a way that is as close to the original. Unfortunately I don't read ancient gtreek.

So I have a question:

here is the translation provided in this book of a famous passage:

"For there is no human being who will preserve his life if he genuinely opposes either you or any other multitude and prevents many unjust and unlawful things from happening in the city"

here is the translation from Benjamin Jowett
"no man who goes to war with you or any other multitude, honestly striving against the many lawless and unrighteous deeds which are done in a state, will save his life"

now I don't care about whether one is more readable than the other, etc

what I care are answer to the following questions that I would be most grateful to get:
1) is the original speaking of "city" or "state"?
2) which verbal expression is closest to what was originally written: "oppose" or "going to war by honestly striving" ?
3)which expressions is closer to the original: is it "unjust and unlawful things" or "lawless and unrighteous"? Is unrighteous right? wasn't it writtent unjust?

You see i am caring about the translated sentence being as close as possible to the original economy (order of words, structure of the sentence, use of one verb when one was used, etc).

Can someone help me assess whether this translation fit with my goal?

Good Translation, Great Dialogues
Having compared this translation with 4 or 5 other translations and with the Greek, I was most pleased with the Plato and less pleased with the Aristophanes.

The Plato texts are accurate and readable, and the prose is even and flowing. They portray the final conversations with Socrates before his execution. The texts are rich with topics for conversation and hold many curiosities when compared with the other Socratic dialogues.

The Aristophanes was accurate, but at times I felt it was censored compared to several of the other translations; not censored in content, but in word choice. This translation uses the less harsh terms for what some of the other translations use. You may find this to be tasteful or dampening to the humor, its a matter of preference, but it is something to be aware of.

In all a great translation of great dialogues and hilarious criticism.

Disastrous, nauseating, incompetent translations. How does work this bad get published?
Before marking 'not useful' please look up the word 'useful' in the dictionary, people!

Never in my life have I been so outraged by what I have read as by the drivel spouted by Dr. West in this book (in his Translator's Note), and by the use of `unponderingly' and "the Thinkery" (among other things) in his translation of The Clouds. I also read his translation of Plato's Apology of Socrates, and found it grossly inferior to Jowett.

Four Texts on Socrates is not a book to be tossed aside lightly: it should be hurled with great force. (Apologies to Dorothy Parker.)

Not only are the translations themselves inexcusably inept, almost everything that he writes in his Translator's Note is wrong.

"The Clouds" is a play, not a scientific or mathematical treatise. As such, it has characters and dialogue. A 'modern' translation of a play must be something that could be presented on a stage and make sense to a 'modern' audience. If a character is supposed to be bizarre or out of the ordinary, one does not make him spout drivel such as 'unponderingly'; one gives him a 'shtick', which is a theatrical term. It's more or less a running gag associated with a particular character. You create, through clever ways of speaking or odd ways of stringing his words together, a characterization. He could be made to speak like a parody of William F. Buckley or the Star Wars character Yoda. As it stands, West's text cannot be presented as a play.

It is neither necessary nor useful to coin such nonsense as 'unponderingly'; indeed, it is inexcusable. It conveys neither humor nor cleverness. It comes off simply as stupid. The translator of a play must know something about theatre and drawing characters, which Dr. West obviously does not. To state it bluntly: The translation of plays should be left to people who understand theatre and characterization, and who are creative. Dr. West doesn't have a creative bone in his body.

In regard to his translation of Plato's The Apology of Socrates, the translation by Dr. West is both original and good, but the parts that are good are not original, and the parts that are original are not good. After all, when one has the work of such a brilliant predecessor as Benjamin Jowett to follow, the temptation to do something entirely different is strong. But it must be resisted. If Dr. West had merely lightly revised Jowett's great work, he would have made a contribution to learning. Alas, he did neither.

The version by Jowett is clearly superior. Here is a short excerpt:

"And I must beg of you to grant me a favor: If I defend myself in my accustomed manner, and you hear me using the words which I have been in the habit of using in the agora, at the tables of the money-changers, or anywhere else, I would ask you not to be surprised, and not to interrupt me on this account. For I am more than seventy years of age, and appearing now for the first time in a court of law, I am quite a stranger to the language of the place; and therefore I would have you regard me as if I were really a stranger, whom you would accuse if he spoke in his native tongue, and after the fashion of his country: Am I making an unfair request of you? Never mind the manner, which may or may not be good; but think only of the truth of my words, and give heed to that: let the speaker speak truly and the judge decide justly."

Compare West's inept version:

"...I do very much beg and beseech this of you: if you hear me speaking in my defense with the same speeches I am accustomed to speak both in the marketplace at the money-tables, where many of you have heard me, and elsewhere, do not wonder or make a disturbance because of this. For this is how it is: now is the first time I have come before a law court, at the age of seventy; hence I am simply foreign to the manner of speech here. So just as, if I really did happen to be a foreigner, you would surely sympathize with me if I spoke in the dialect and way in which I was raised, so also I do beg of you now (and it is just, at least, as it seems to me): leave aside the manner of my speech--for perhaps it may be worse, but perhaps better--and instead consider this very thing and apply your mind to this: whether the things I say are just or not. For this is the virtue of a judge, while that of an orator is to speak the truth."

"Speaking...with the same speeches I am accustomed to speak"? How utterly inept and repetitive! Didn't he even proof-read? One doesn't speak with 'speeches', one speaks with words!

West also uses "virtue" in "virtue of a judge" quite inappropriately. Obviously, he is translating some Greek word in a rigid manner to show that the same Greek word was used as in another place. But "virtue of a judge" (or "virtue of an orator") is not idiomatic English. We don't use "virtue" that way in English, ever. West is simply wrong here. The meaning of "virtue" precludes its being used in this manner.

It is obvious that Dr. West never read his version aloud as a test of its appropriateness, which is surprising, because this work is supposed to be a speech. Dr. West's version is clearly not suited to speaking aloud, whereas Jowett's is. In West's translation, Socrates is a clumsy, repetitive, and inept speaker. Needlessly so. If you want to read a good translation, see Jowett's 3rd edition (1892).

If Socrates is to speak English, let it be the King's English, or not at all.

Why does Dr. West believe himself qualified to make translations? Nothing in his work suggests that he is competent in any way to do so. This is not the work of a scholar, but that of a bungling hack. These translations are travesties. How does work this nauseatingly bad get published?

NOT RECOMMENDED

A Great Help for Teachers
This is an outstanding translation of these Greek texts.These are texts that many of us regularly teach in introductory classes, and it is a great help to have such a reliable translation: the translation is clear and accessible, but maintains an unusually strict adherence to the form of the original Greek.This makes it useful for advanced study as well.The running footnotes to the text are especially helpful for giving students the relevant points of historical and legal context for understanding Socrates's position, but they are sparse enough that they do not intrude in the interpretation of the text.This is the only translation of these texts that I will use in my courses. ... Read more

Product Description
Among the most important and influential philosophical works in Western thought: Euthyphro, exploring the concepts and aims of piety and religion; Apology, a defense of the integrity of Socrates’ teachings; Crito, exploring Socrates’ refusal to flee his death sentence; and Phaedo, in which Socrates embraces death and discusses the immortality of the soul. Translations by the distinguished classical scholar, Benjamin Jowett.
... Read more

Customer Reviews (13)

nice work
the book was in the condition that was stated, but took a little longer to arrive then i expected. in this day and age i have come to expect things to arrive instantly, sometimes unfairly. They did a good job overall.

One of the Greatest Books of All-Time
This magnificent compilation has four Plato writings:"Euthyphro," "Apology," "Crito," and "Phaedo." Though apparently early works and not as complex or philosophically influential as later ones, they are immensely important in portraying Socrates' trial and death. They are our clearest picture of the historical Socrates and would be invaluable for this alone. Indeed, I have read hundreds - perhaps thousands - of books, and this is one of my ten or so favorites, mostly because of how moving the depiction of the great man's last days is. The story of Socrates' Apology and last moments is part of world literature's very fabric, an immortal part of Western cultural heritage. Anyone who wants to learn about Socrates should start here. However, the works have great value even aside from this; a few have indeed questioned their historical veracity. This does not affect their philosophical, literary, and political worth, which is of the highest, making the book doubly essential.

"Euthyphro" is the least important work philosophically and probably not meant as historical, but it is still worthwhile. It examines the important "What is piety?" question and, like many Platonic dialogues, does not have anything like a definite conclusion. Some find this aspect frustrating, and it is certainly beguiling, but those who have experience with it come to love it. Like Socrates, Plato is after all too intelligent to give hard and fast answers; in all likelihood, he knows there are not any. What he does is far more important - lead us to think for ourselves and come to our own conclusions if we can. "Euthyphro" is a good, if relatively minor, example. It also introduces what philosophers call the Euthyphro Problem; here it is "Are good things good because they are loved by the gods, or are they loved by the gods because they are good?," but it has been restated in innumerable forms. This is in some ways an unrepresentative dialogue and thus an unfortunate one to begin the book, because it seems to prove the stereotype that philosophy obsesses over inane, probably unanswerable questions of no practical use. The Euthyphro Problem seems truly asinine as given - or, in our post-postmodern world, simply irrelevant. However, we can begin to see its importance when we replace "good" and "loved by the gods" with whatever seems most pressing. Such is after all the kind of thing Plato wanted; we are not supposed to read in narrow literal terms but use him as a starting point for our path to wisdom. This is an instructive example of how Plato has been immensely influential far beyond his apparent significance.

"Apology" is Plato's least philosophical and most unrepresentative work but arguably his most important and is among many readers' favorites, including mine. The book's title is misleading in that this is prose rather than dialogue; it purports to be Socrates' self-defense at his trial. It is historically priceless if so, as it gives his last public statements and some background about his life and the lead up to the trial. Even if not, it is of immense worth as a passionate, sound defense of individualism and free speech; its timeless evocation of these all-important concepts is forever associated with Socrates and the main reason he has been immortalized. The work also piercingly examines the often vast law/conscience gap and is thus an early higher law document. Finally, it is a sort of mini-dialogue in itself touching on and in several ways tying up classic Socrates/Plato themes like the nature of piety and goodness, responsibility toward the gods and the state, interpersonal relations, and life vs. death issues. It sums up Socrates and perhaps Plato better than any other work.

"Crito" is a possibly partly historical account of the title character visiting Socrates in jail to inform him that he is able to escape via bribe; Socrates famously says that he accepts his sentence and argues down contrary pleas. This gives incredible potential insight into Socrates, in many ways telling us more about his character and thought than a full biography ever could. Again, though, it transcends this philosophically and otherwise and is particularly relevant politically. It also examines the law/conscience gap and gives further background on Socrates but is notable above all as a very early example of the social contract theory of government. This is an astonishing example of how advanced Plato was, as the theory is generally considered to have been founded by Thomas Hobbes nearly a millennium later. Even more amazingly, it is put forth more clearly and persuasively here than perhaps anywhere else, making the dialogue essential for anyone interested in political theory.

"Phaedo" ostensibly details Socrates' last moments, including his last look at his wife and child, his last dialogue, his last words to friends, and his actual death. A large part of Socrates' image comes from this, and its potential historical value is inconceivable, though its historicity can easily be doubted since the work itself strongly suggests that Plato was not there. Even so, it is likely accurate in regard to the things that really matter and certainly a fine account of how it very well could have been. It is extremely moving; shot through with pathos, it is one of the most affecting things I have ever read. One can surely not read it without being overcome by emotion; I can hardly even think of it without misty eyes. Anyone who respects and admires this central Western civilization figure will be profoundly touched; his famous last words seem comic out of context but are very much otherwise here, telling us much about Socrates and moving us yet further. This would be one of the greatest works of all-time if it had no other aspect, but it is also a fine dialogue appropriately dealing mostly with death. Plato examines perennial questions like the soul's immortality and metempsychosis very thoroughly and thought-provokingly, and the conclusion - unsurprisingly, given the circumstances - has uncharacteristic certainty. It may not convince our cynical, empiricist, science-loving, twentieth century-surviving age, but the argument is certainly well-made and in many ways admirable. The dialogue touches on other important subjects also and is generally seen as the culmination of Plato's early, Socrates-centered thought.

It is important to realize that these four works were not originally published together, but the trial and death connection means they are often collected. There are many such editions, but this is the least expensive and probably the most widely available, making it ideal for most; it also has extra value in that many versions lack "Euthyphro." However, all should know that, like other Dover Thrift Editions, this is bare bones, having only a short headnote besides the text. Anyone wanting supplemental material will need to look elsewhere; such things are very important in regard to texts of this age and importance, and most general readers will probably need them for comprehension. It is thus tempting to recommend the book mostly for those with some knowledge of Plato and/or Socrates, and it will be helpful to have read Plato previously. That said, these are Plato's most accessible writings and largely speak for themselves, arguably making this an ideal introduction, especially considering the price.

The ever-important translation issue must also be kept in mind. It goes without saying that anyone who cares about intellectual issues, especially applied ones, must know Plato, as should anyone who wants to be even basically well-read. However, this is far easier said than done for most; he is so different from what now passes for literature, to say nothing of pop culture, that he is virtually inaccessible to general readers. Yet the importance of persevering cannot be overemphasized; the payoff is well worth the effort. As nearly always in such cases, reading him becomes far easier after the initial difficulty; no attentive reader will ever think Plato easy reading, but he is utterly absorbing once we get used to his style. He has a near-poetic beauty that all agree has never even been remotely approached in philosophy, and such mesmerizing prose is rare in any genre. His dialogues are an incredible form at once intellectually and aesthetically pleasing - an inspired combination that has perhaps never been bettered; many have appropriated it, but none have matched it. All this means that picking the right translation is probably more important with Plato than any other writer. This Benjamin Jowett translation is now quite old but still very accessible; it will work quite well for most, but anyone struggling should try a more recent version. For the average reader, the more recent, the better is generally true. The important thing is to read Plato in some form, and those who happen on a translation that does not work for them should keep trying until their mind opens in a truly new way - and once done, it will never close again.

All told, though this edition is not the best for all, anyone wanting an inexpensive Plato/Socrates primer could hardly do better.

Book
Never read the book needed it for class but it arrived quickly and in great condition.

true to the socrates' principles
Excellent book highlighting the need and importance of logical reasoning for a better understanding of everything one encounters

All you need to know on how to live a good life
is in this book.Socrates was proclaimed (by the Oracle at Delphi, the voice of Apollo) to be the wisest man in Athens.After the Democracy had come back after the defeat in the Peloponnesian Wars, the mob needed someone to take the blame, and Socrates was the designated victim.He continues on his path happily, knowing that he has served Athens in the best way that he could.You can't beat the price for this copy of the four dialogues that make up his trial and death, and you can't ask for a better role model than Socrates!

Highest rating! ... Read more

Product Description
Christopher Phillips is a man on a mission: to revive the love of questions that Socrates inspired long ago in ancient Athens. "Like a Johnny Appleseed with a master's degree, Phillips has gallivanted back and forth across America, to cafés and coffee shops, senior centers, assisted-living complexes, prisons, libraries, day-care centers, elementary and high schools, and churches, forming lasting communities of inquiry" (Utne Reader). Phillips not only presents the fundamentals of philosophical thought in this "charming, Philosophy for Dummies-type guide" (USA Today); he also recalls what led him to start his itinerant program and re-creates some of the most invigorating sessions, which come to reveal sometimes surprising, often profound reflections on the meaning of love, friendship, work, growing old, and others among Life's Big Questions. "How to Start Your Own Socrates Café" guide included.Amazon.com Review
For Christopher Phillips, philosophy is a passion: it is not so much a discipline to be learned as an experience to be lived. Taking his cue from Socrates, the inaugurator of the Western philosophical tradition, Phillips embarks on a search for truth and meaning through a series of conversations that is at once refreshing, humorous, troubling, confusing, encouraging, depressing, and provocative. What makes Plato's Socratic dialogues so enduring--and Phillips's book so intriguing--is that for both Plato and Phillips, philosophy is not something you read or study. It is something you do. Plato wrote in Parmenides that "without wandering around and examining everything in detail one is unable to secure understanding." Phillips takes this approach--the Socratic approach--to heart. In the course of Socrates Café, he travels around asking questions of everyone who's interested. Just like the real Socrates, who did not confine himself to the Athenian ivory tower, Phillips searches out public conversations--what he calls Socrates cafés--with children, seniors, psychiatrists, prisoners, ex-academics, students, lawyers, and everyday people. In a sense, the book is a series of short, modern-day Socratic dialogues interspersed with meditations on the nature of philosophical inquiry.

Phillips seizes upon what the Greeks called "elenchus," a method of inquiry that helps people see their own beliefs and opinions more clearly. In the course of the numerous Socrates cafés highlighted in this book, Phillips persistently reminds us that we ought to ask questions simply because the process is good for us. In each of the cafés, the participants vary as widely as the questions, and the dialogues are by turns candid, insightful, muddled, intelligent, bland, and piquant. The real meaning of Socrates Café lies in the contentious and wonderful space of human interaction. --Eric de Place ... Read more

Customer Reviews (44)

Ignorant of real Socrates, doesn't care
That's a pretty "interesting" thing for Phillips to say, at least.

And, the real Socrates (read I.F. "Izzy" Stone's "The Trial of Socrates") isn't waht Phillips accepts him as. Phillips does admit in passing that Socrates was pretty much an anti-democrat. (That's what got him convicted; ignoring the Athenian civic gods - not the Olympians - was the official legal entree for that.)

But, Phillips doesn't query the Platonic figure any more. (He also doesn't tell you that the Socrates who briefly gets written up in Aristophanes was purely for comedic value.)

This gets to Socrates' battles against Protagoras and other Sophists.

Phillips accepts at face value the Platonic winner-written history that the Sophists were elitists.

Actually, if anybody in this issue was an elitist, it was Socrates. He did, as Phillips alluded Socrates could do at times, have preconceived stances (think Jesus vs. Pharaisees) and his "socratic dialog" was often rhetorical.

Since Athens had no lawyers, and you had to argue your own civil - and criminal - cases, skill in rhetoric was invaluable. And offering to the hoi polloi was egalitarian.

This book might halfway deserve a 3-star, but, if Phillips can't get his own protagonist correct, and doesn't care to try, it doesn't deserve more than two stars.

A decent introduction to Socratic thinking
Phillips does what he says he'll do in this book:he introduces (or, reintroduces) Socrates to the general public.Yay!Like many, I had to take philosophy in college, and, like many, I was totally turned off by theoverly-academic, self-absorbed philosophy professors presenting the material. Ick, and double ick.I found the material to be interesting, but not the people teaching the material.

Socrates Cafe helped me to back up and regroup, however.I've been using Socratic methods in my classroom for a couple of years, and the results are phenomenal, because kids are their own best teachers in many ways.Phillips re-awakened my interest in discourse, and helped me to focus my questioning a little better.

This book is, above all, accessible -- which was the entire point, I believe.Some have described it as pedestrian, to which I think Phillips would probably say, "Thank you."

Nice job, good read, a little slow at the end.

Okay...
I really enjoyed this book when I read it for the first time in tenth grade. Looking back on it, however, I see it now as a bit...well, a bit childish. The world of thoughts and opinions is much deeper than the bottom of a coffee cup.
It seems now, even then as I was reading the book in tenth grade, that Phillips has oversimplified complex matters. His whole philosophy, as put forth in this book, could be summarized easily in one sentence: "Let's all be happy because philosophy is cool." This is a gigantic simplification of the real issues at stake; namely: What is being? Who are we? Why are we here?
He leaves out the actual history too; historical mentions are scanty and not worth noting. He idealizes Socrates and his contemporaries; in his book they are very "Americanized" versions of what the actual men were probably like, their real likenesses adapted to fit the cultural norms of contemporary North America--when in fact they were part of a totally different culture which he didn't even mention (As one who studies anthropology, this really irked me).
And, on top of this, he never really says anything. Somewhere near the end of the book, he asks why we should philosophize, and answers it by saying "to be better people" or something like that. But then, why should we "be better people"?Instead of exploring these real issues, he kind of vaguely says that they exist--and then recounts a meeting at a cafe (or a prison or school, the locations vary) where, once again, people with very "American" mindsets talk about their experiences and try to delve into the issue.
One other problem is the length and difficulty level. It's just too short and too easy of a read to answer, or even attempt to begin to answer, the problems Phillips claims he is devoted to. For example, in one of the dialogs someone remarks that Phillips' wife has just "crossed the language barrier." There are two problems with this: First, the "language barrier" is never defined and like many other issues, just another abstract concept, now given a "philosophical" dimension.
Secondly, the barrier that is "crossed" in his book is between Spanish and English. Guess what people, those two languages are not very different. I am a budding linguist and nearly fluent in Spanish, Japanese, Arabic (Modern standard with a specialty in Saudi and Iraqi dialects), and am familiar with many other languages (one of which is ancient Greek, the language of Socrates). The "barrier" between Spanish and English just isn't very big. If a language barrier does exist between two given languages, it 1) is more related to culture and 2) can be crossed once the new "culture" is learned.
And lastly, there is one other problem, which is the biggest of all.
HE NEVER ACTUALLY CITES PLATO. You know, he could have written the book completely on what he's read about Plato and Socrates rather than what he actually did read of Plato's works. I couldn't believe that Plato's works weren't cited in the references section. He does mention a few, but they are relatively unimportant works like Gorgias and Euthyphro--I think there is only ONE mention of the Republic, without which Plato would have been an obscure philosopher, like Heraclitus. This is like talking about J.K. Rowling but never mentioning Harry Potter. When other philosophers are discussed, their views are oversimplified.
Looking back, this book poses serious problems historically, linguistically and anthropologically.
It was okay when I read it, a few years ago. I've grown up since then.

Using "reason" as a key to life.
Christopher Phillips, in the true tradition established by Socrates himself, has provided a road map to passing on the process of "reason".I enjoyed the book and have recommended it to others following the same philosophy.

The cafes have some unexamined chinks
Where does "everyman" go in this world for reasoned, open, and enlightened conversation outside an academic setting? The filtered, abbreviated, and sanitized output of the media and Internet sites hardly serves as a replacement. Into this vacuum stepped the author, a former journalist, enamored of philosophers and philosophizing, who decided to facilitate Socratic discussions in all manner of locations, but mostly cafes and bookstores. Of course, Socrates, an Athenian of the 5th century BC, was known for his penetrating questioning of the assumptions of the leading citizens of Athens, a habit which little endeared him to them. This book consists of a rather meandering look at the author's hesitant start up of this enterprise, simplified re-creations of several actual question and answer sessions at a variety of locations, and various pertinent philosophical points from philosophers of the past and from the author.

The questioning process at these discussions is pretty much ad hoc with honesty being the only requirement for asking or answering. Among the questions asked were "What is here?"; "What is home?"; "What is silence?"; "What is a friend?"; or "Why is what?". It is simply assumed that a group of near strangers who meet for two hours once a week, or less, benefits from kicking around these various, often vague or obscure, subjects. He doesn't address the impact of the disparity in backgrounds that such an assemblage is likely to have. The discussions can deteriorate into an endless series of not necessarily connected questions with limited results.

It is striking that virtually none of the topics presented for discussion in the book are controversial. Does the author suggest that politics, religion, economics, media, justice, war, etc are of no interest to people who attend his cafes. If these subjects were broached, how would that affect the functioning of the groups? The author asks "What is a church?" in one group. What if he had asked, "What is the basis of religious belief"? One suspects that Socrates would have gone right to that. There is not the sense that the author is after the truth in quite the unrestrained manner as a Socrates.

The author notes that ideas and conversation are essential to a democracy, however, neighborhood gathering places located in the midst of our sterile, zoned housing tracts are virtually non existent. These Socratic cafes could easily be seen as inadequate, artificial alternatives to real community gathering places. It's hard to imagine the people in "The Great Good Places" by Ray Oldenburg devoting much time to "Why is what" when so many real world issues having community impacts need to be addressed.

The author disappoints in another way. Many authors have web sites, and he is no exception. In this case it is for his institution, the Society for Philosophical Inquiry, which supposedly supports 300 dialogue groups. But one can find no evidence of these groups anywhere on the entire web site - very strange. From reading his book, one would think they would be front and center on the site. Perhaps there are legal issues. Instead those who access the site are given several means of buying goods or joining the SPI for a fee. It's disheartening to find an emphasis on the Socratic Café name as a brand for sale. [Note: It turns out that the list of local cafes is for sale also. Socrates is rolling over in his grave.]

At first glance, Socratic cafes seem to be an unqualified good - and they are as far as they go. But there is a certain amount of doubt as to whether that model can play a relevant and important role in public discourse in this era of isolation and spin. The book is unwilling to address any shortcomings of the concept, which is rather ironic given the author's insistence that he is "seeking Socrates." The autobiographical elements of the book are interesting, but there is an element of self promotion that lingers.
... Read more

Product Description
In unraveling the long-hidden issues in the most famous free speech case of all time, Stone ranges far and wide over Roman as well as Greek civilization and gives us an engaging and rewarding introduction to classical antiquity and its relevance to our society today. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (38)

Well written/researched book
I bought the hardback edition of this book for a song at a used bookstore - it was brand new - for this price. It is a fantastic book. You have to take it slow because there is so much information in it. I am completely enamored with Stone. This guy really went the extra mile in trying to get his unbiased view. I've had to put this book down twice when I checked it out from the library so I decided to just go ahead and buy it. I am now on my third reading. I love this book. There is more to it than just Socrates and it is a great book in the study of Ancient Greece. It is not the easiest book to read but that is because there are so many names/ideas. Well worth the effort to understand. They should use this book in a philosophy class.

Read between the lines...
In I.F. Stone's first book, The Hidden History of the Korean War, he pieced together a hamhanded defense of North Korean tactics under Kim Il Sung using American secondary sources such as newspaper articles and Senate hearings. Now, don't dismiss this review because I'm saying this. I'm a big fan of Stone's philosophy and courage. But in that first book he operated under the assumption that Kim Il Sung was sane, which is simply wrong. He claimed that the Russians were lying when they said they did not trust Kim with their weapons, when a cursory review of North Korean history will show that Kim was an untrustworthy person from beginning to end.

Now, in this book, he makes the shocking argument that Socrates was prosecuted fairly by Athenian society; furthermore, that Socrates had been defending Sparta, a slave society, without ever going there, and that he had created an intellectual class that despised the freedoms of Athens and preferred the violent Spartan regime.

See where I'm going here?

I'm not sure if other readers of Stone have made this connection before, but I do think it's clear that this book is first and foremost a critical self-reflection, not a denunciation of Socrates or of contemporary liberals. For this I award it five stars, because of his subtlety, his strength of argument, and his intellectual honesty.

Plato and Pinochet
No, that's not ME being provocative with my review title. I.F. Stone makes the linkage explicit between Critias -- Plato's spokesman in several dialogues and "the most thievish, the most violent, the most murderous" of the Thirty who briefly usurped power in Athens just a few years before the trial of Socrates -- and the several dictators of Latin America history. According to Stone, the oligarchic `clubs' of Athens were "the prototypes of the death squads the military used in Argentina, El Salvador, and Chile in our time." (p. 143). It's a odd irony, says Stone, that Socrates has been the very icon of martyrdom in the cause of free thought, when in fact neither he nor his elitist disciple Plato had anything but contempt for egalitarian values, free speech, or the consent of the governed. Both were persistent admirers of caste-structured repressive Sparta, rather than the Athens which tolerated their disdain. Plato's "philospher king", maintained by a caste of military "guardians", does indeed look a lot like Pinochet, Franco, Duvalier, Salazar, or a certain vice-president of recent memory.

I.F. Stone has the rare distinction of having been castigated as a Marxist or worse by right-tilting readers, yet acclaimed by readers of the same stripe as a `libertarian.' He's a bit of both; his goal, as he says in his preface to this book, is "a liberating synthesis of Marx and Jefferson."

Speaking of Jefferson... Slave-owners of the American South and their literary minions - chiefly lawyers, journalists, and clergymen - delighted in asserting that their `freedom-loving' society was a New Athens. With their stringent repression of any discussion of abolition, their censorship of the mails, their imprisonment and sometime execution of dissidents -- all measures of proper government according to Plato's Republic -- the proper comparison should have been to Sparta, a tyranny based on racial enslavement of the non-Dorian helots, on enforced conformity, and on elitist derogation of labor.

The accusation against Socrates was "corruption of the Youth." Stone's central thesis is that the accusation was accurate, though the trial was both illegal and unjust, and a lamentable violation of the very Athenian values that the Socratics rejected. The youths were such as Critias, Charmides, Alcibiades, the gilded scions of the wealthy oligarchs who were never reconciled to the enfranchisement of the middle and lower classes. As portrayed by Plato, Socrates invariably scoffed at the notion that `ordinary people'- workers, merchants, farmers - could possibly govern themselves as wisely as a caste of `experts' in the guise of philosophers. Stone concludes eventually that the 70-year-old Socrates recalcitrantly sought his own conviction and execution rather than acknowledge any virtues in popular sovereignty. It's a bit of a stretch, but in a sense Socrates, via the literary genius of his student Plato, had the `last laugh' in tricking the Athenians into violating their own commitment to freedom of thought.

Like virtually everyone of my age, I first looked at The Republic in high school, after some desultory fashion, guided by teachers whose insights were equally desultory. I read it again at least twice over the years. I have to confess that I found in it mostly what I'd been led to expect, though each reading has further shaken those expectations and uncovered ambiguities. Stone's reading of Plato and the Socratics has totally revolutionized my interpretations. It's a brilliantly orderly, close reading of the sources -- the dialogues of Plato; the works of Xenophon; pertinent passages from the stage works of Aeschylus, Aristophanes, and Eripides; and scattered references to the trial from later Greek and Roman authors as late as Diogenes Laertes. It's plainly, sensibly written, without a touch of academic pomposity. It's as exciting as any detective novel or courtroom drama. I wish I'd read it twenty years ago. Thanks to Egolfur the Floridian for reminding me to do so now!

Socrates/Plato Were Against Free Speech but All They Supposedly Did Was Talk and Dissent
I.F.Stone (1907-1989)wrote THE TRIAL OF SOCRATES late in life. Stone carefully studied Greek and wrote a thoughtful commentary re The Trial of Socrates, the Peloponnesian War, Athenian polictical and social history, etc. Stone gave readers a solid background of the historical backbround to the trial and Athens at a critically tense time in Ancient Greek History.

Stone began this book with the contradiction of Socrates' dissent and defiance during his trial as reported by Plato (427-347 BC)in Plato's dialogue tited THE APOLOGY. Yet, in the dialogue THE CRITO, Plato reports that Socrates (470-399 BC)passively accepts the verdict in spite of his (Socrates')earlier contempt for Athenian law. A good point is that Socrates/Plato were not consistence,and Socrates rarely asserted a definate proposition. During Socrates' trial, he condemned the Athenian Sophists, but Socrates performed the same philosophical gymnatics himself. For example, Socrates argued that the truest and most honest man was the most dishonest since he (the honest man)knew more about honesty and dishonesty.

Stone showed Socrates' inconsistency in the dialogue MENO when Socrates argued that virtue was not teachable and then claims it is. Stone compared Socrates/Plato to the Late Medieval Nominalists who produced useless arguements over words and names (hence the term Nominalists)rather than serious ideas and concepts.

According the Socrates/Plato, virtue was not teachable. Hence the Guardians and the Philospher Kings were to order the Athenians of what was true and false. Dissenters and those who disagreed were to be purged. Stone cites Aristotle (384-322 BC) who argued that virtue, truth, knowledge,etc. were indeed teachable in spite of what Plato/Socrates had previously taught.

Stone not only critisizes Plato/Socrates for their authortarian views, but Stone used historical analysis to provide a context for Plato's work. The Athenians faced defeat between 415-411 BC. The Spartans took control of Athens who were ruled by what are known as The Thirty Tyrants under the leadership of Critias who was highly praised by Plato in spite of Critias' purges and police state tactics. Socrates claimed to be a gadfly during his trial, but Stone remarked that Socrates was a gadfly without any actual sting. For example, when the Athenians took the island of Milos in 416 BC, they massacred all of the men and abused the women and children who were then sold into slavery. Yet, there was no Socratic protest over this outrage. The citizens on Milos only wanted to remain neutral during the Peloponesian War.

Stone also refuted claims of Plato/Socrates that Socrates had such divine wisdom, he could predict future events. If this were true, Socrates would have warned his friend Alcibiades (450-404 BC)not to invade Sicily and Syracuse in 415 BC which was probably the turning point of the war. Thucydides (c460-c.400BC)had no mention of this Socratic insight in his book titled THE PELOPONNESIAN WAR.

When the Athenian Democrats regained power, they showed surprising clemency toward those who collaborated with the Spartan tyrants. Aristotle praised the Athenians for showing good sense as did Xenophon (c.430-c.354 BC). Earlier when the Spartans took control of Athens, Socrates/Plato offered no complaint or lament. Stone had an interesting comment that Christ cried over Jerusalem, but Socrates/Plato were at best indifferent to the fate of Athens. Even Xenophon, mentioned above, who was not the most loyal of Athenians, praised Theramenes who showed such mercy once the Thirty Tyrants were ousted from power.

Stone further refutes comments re Plato/Socrates re the dialogue THE REPUBLIC. Alan Bloom stated that THE REPUBLIC is a spoof. However, Stone accurately showed the totalitarian concepts mentioned in THE REPUBLIC are further repeated in subsequent dialogues of Plato such as TIMAEUS,THE LAWS, CRITEUS, THE STATESMEN, etc. In fact, Plato wanted what he called The Nocturnal Council to arrest dissenters and critics in the secrecy of the night to be purged. Another comment that Stone refutes is the canard that the Athenians erected a bronze statue to honor Socrates. No such arifact has been found, and, as Stone mentioned, Plato & co. would have mentioned this. They did not.

Another anecdote that Stone used to critisize Plato/Socrates was the fact that Plato/Socrates chided Pericles (c.470 BC-c,429 BC)for not ending talk and debate in Athens. Stone commented that poor Socrates, who talked and debated all of the time, would have no one with whom to converse and to spread "truth."

Stone's critics have chided him for being a leftest in spite of Stone's condemnation of the Soviet system in 1956. He was scolded for this book by the Ivory Tower Guardians who claim such elite knowledge of Plato and philosophy. Yet, these Ivory Tower Elites do not mention that someone of "conservative" views made the same arguements that Stone mentioned. For example Karl Popper (1902-1994)made similar criticisms of Plato/Socrates in Popper's book titled THE OPEN SOCIETY AND ITS ENEMIES. Mr. Ball,Esq., a "conservative" made similar comments his book titled MERE CREATURES OF THE STATE.

I.F. Stone did not claim to have the "final word" re Plato/Socrates' thinking. Stone did a careful job of research and thinking to challenge a sacred cow. Those who whine that The Great Books do not get enough attention should appreciate Stone's book titled THE TRIAL OF SOCRATES. Stone revived an interest not only in Plato's dialogues, but Stone also called readers' attention to Homer's ILLIAD/ODYSSEY,Thucydides' THE PELOPONNESIAN WAR, Aristophones' comedies, etc. Stone' book is well written and should revive such interest in the Classics.

The real Socrates revealed
Socrates was NOT a democrat, of course. His touting of Sparta, and his relations to Alciabiades and other authoritarian rebels makes that clear.

But, Stone also points out that he wasn't an intellectual egalitarian, either, and that the "Socratic method," to the degree it is touted as egalitarian, or anything similar, is a fraud.

If anybody was egalitarian at that time, it was Protagoras and Socrates' other Sophist opponents. As Athens hand no lawyers, not even government prosecutors, citizens pressed their own cases, civil and criminal alike.

Hence, skills in rhetoric were hugely valuable.

Reading through the lines of Plato's "winners write history" description of Socrates, it's clear that he was interested in setting up straw men, etc., rather than having a legitimate, question-based search and dialogue. And, of course, we don't know the Sophists' *real* answers, just what Plato put on their lips. And, Stone sets you up to see all of that.

Ignore, in general, the 1-3 star reveiwers; they've got political axes to grind against Stone. ... Read more

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Customer Reviews (7)

Great philosophy book and perfect for a christian teaching
This book combines philosophy and christianity perfectly.I higly reccommend it as a teaching tool or enjoyment reading.

Excellent philosophy primer and intro to Socrates!
Kreeft's book is an excellent philosophy primer that anyone can enjoy, easily read, and benefit from.As a huge fan of Socrates, I was enthralled with the use of Plato's "Apology", the "Euthyphro", and the "Phaedo" as a teaching tools that will captivate your imagination and search your soul.You can really feel Socrates probing you, making you ask questions of and about yourself, profound questions, that everyone needs to confront and be confronted by.Everyone should apply the Socratic Method to their own life...it will change it forever!

This book is an easy read and you should purchase a copy, take it with you everywhere, and read every chance you get.When you finish, READ IT AGAIN!!!Let Socrates teach you that what you think you know, you really don't know.The unexamined life is truly not worth living.Let Socrates examine you and then you too will live life more fully...by asking good questions about everything.Take nothing for granted or on surface value; probe, probe, probe!

This book would be a great tool for informal chats re philosophy, psychology, religion, or even just for fun.I highly recommend it...no matter your chosen faith or the lack thereof.But get ready to be challenged!

Yes, Buy It and Read It Passionately
Peter Kreeft transmits his passion for wisdom, for philosophy, in this small book by focusing on the personification of philosophy: Socrates. Kreeft shows us how the pursuit of wisdom will lead to respectful confrontation with those who do not know but think they know. The Socratic method of respectful cross-examination is at the core of exposing the fallacies of those, as someone once said, who are always certain but seldom right. Kreeft also presents the parallels between Socrates and Jesus. You will enjoy and be inspired by this celebration of the passionate pursuit of philosophy.

Socrates from a Christian prospective
Peter Kreeft introduces Philosophy by introducing us to the father of philosophy, Socrates. He uses the Apology of Socrates to give 40 descriptions of philosophy. He shows the paradox of philosophy with such terms as foolish, simplistic and conformist. Throughout the book, Kreeft's Christian perspective comes through with comparisons of Socrates and Christ, which I think give the book a unique niche but I sure will offend some.

Introducing philosophy
Peter Kreeft has taught philosophy for over forty years. He is also a Christian. So what does philosophy have to do with Christianity? Or as Tertullian put it long ago, what does Athens have to do with Jerusalem?

Well quite a bit really, according to Kreeft. For example, both are, or should be, concerned with truth, or the discovery of truth. Both are concerned about going beyond appearances and getting at reality.

Thus Kreeft thinks philosophy, properly understood and practiced, can be a real aid to the believer. This book is an introductory primer to philosophy, or more specifically, to doing philosophy. Kreeft thinks that Plato/Socrates may have been our greatest philosopher, and his works make for an excellent entry point to philosophy. (Kreeft side-steps the historical debate over Socrates, and for his/our purposes, we will simply speak of Socrates.)

Three dialogues that exemplify Socrates' method and manner are here focused on: the Apology of Socrates, the Euthyphro, and the Phaedo. Kreeft enjoys using these dialogues as they do not just talk about philosophy but they actually show us philosophy in action.

The Apology is the main text focused on. In it Kreeft tells us forty different things about philosophy and the philosophical method. As we all know, philosophy is the love of wisdom. It differs from mere knowledge, and God is its source. While God has wisdom, man pursues it. In this Socrates and biblical religion are on common ground.

Moreover, the quest of philosophy is not for truth as found in the physical sciences, but moral and eternal truths, as found in religion. Moral questions, like "What is justice?" cannot be answered by the physical sciences.

Also, belief in God and the really important things in life goes hand in hand with humility. Socrates stressed this, as do many of the great religions. Skepticism about God tends to correlate with pride, while true wisdom recognizes its limits, and is open to truth outside its limited perceptions.

And Socrates, like Jesus, was a real counter-culturalist. Indeed, both men were hated by many because of their challenges to the status quo. Indeed, both were ultimately put to death.

Of course in all this Kreeft does not equate the two great men. Socrates could only claim to be a seeker after truth, while Jesus claimed to be the truth.

A key issue raised in the Euthyphro is the connection between God and goodness. Can we be good without God? The two options presented are, 1) that God chooses what is good (Euthyphro's position), and 2) that God is subject to what is good (Socrates' position). Of course Christians tend to say that this is a false dilemma, and argue for a third position, that God's goodness is coterminous with his nature. Position one seems to make God arbitrary, and position two seems to make goodness greater than God. But the third option fully equates goodness with God. What God commands is good because it is in accord with his own good nature.

The last work examined, the Phaedo, is the story of the death of Socrates. It is also the argument of Socrates for why life extends beyond the grave, for why the soul is immortal.

The "gadfly of Athens" was put to death for his search for truth. Of course Jesus was put to death for his proclamation of truth. To refer to the earlier discussion about historicity, Kreeft reminds us that while Christianity cannot survive without Christ, philosophy can survive without an historical Socrates. Even if he is just the creation of Plato's pen, his timeless truths live on.

It was Alfred North Whitehead who once said that the European philosophical tradition "consists of a series of footnotes to Plato." No one can improve upon the greatness of Plato/Socrates. His greatness and wisdom live on. Thus there is so much we can learn from Socrates, so much we are indebted to.

He is not the equivalent of Christ, but he bears many similarities, as Kreeft points out throughout this book. And there are real shortcomings to Socrates. His insistence on the importance of the soul was as valuable as his denial of the importance of the body was flawed.

Believers need not be ashamed of nor afraid of philosophy. In its proper form, it leads us to truth. And in the Christian tradition, God is truth. Of course in a fallen world, extrnal revelation is needed to supplement internal inquiry.

But is it possible that God can use pre-Christians like Socrates to teach us much about life and even Himself? Kreeft thinks so, and this book goes a long way in showing Christians how to appreciate the beauties of philosophy. Of course in other books in this series, Kreeft shows the dark side of reckless philosophy (as in his discussions about Sartre and Marx). But here we learn of the good purposes which philosophy can serve.
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"...a brilliant commentary on the Greek mind and its attitude tolife." ^ITLS^R ... Read more

Customer Reviews (9)

A Don for Everyone
Accessible to the lay reader, Professor Cornford's 1932 masterpiece succinctly outlines his thesis that Socrates played the pivotal role in changing the focus of Greek philosophy from a concern with the material world and "the beginning of things", to the examination of life's purpose and the exploration of how humans can best conduct their lives to fulfill that purpose.

Recommended for all recent high school graduates, or for youngsters and others interested philosophy.

DISSATISFIED
UNFORTUNATELY, I NEVER RECEIVED THIS BOOK AND I AM UNABLE TO RATE IT!THE CLASS IS IN THE SECOND WEEK.I FOUND IT NECESSARY TO BORROW THIS BOOK FROM THE PUBLIC LIBRARY TO KEEP UP WITH THE CLASS READING.
I HAVE CONTACTED SAID BOOK COMPANY ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS.THE REPLY I RECEIVED WAS THAT THE BOOK WAS ENROUTE.I ORDERED A BOOK AT A LATER TIME, IN FACT TWO OR SO WEEKS AFTER THIS ONE AND RECEIVED IT IN LESS THAN A WEEKS TIME.
I AM STILL WAITING ON THE ARRIVAL OF SAID BOOK!

look no further for a quick, succint, to the chase, summary of the key points in socrates, plato, and aristotle
Conford's 1932 classic is still one of the most useful books for students of Greek philosophy.The book is only 113 pages: Pre-Socratics - 28 pages; Socrates - 26 pages; Plato - 30 pages; Aristotle - 26 pages; Index - 3 pages. Presto! All the essential points are covered in easily understood, large print, accessible writing. Conford was a Cambridge don who really knew his stuff.He himself translated many of the works discussed. Thus, one gets an accurate basic reading. Another excellent feature is that the book focuses on the development of these powerful ideas in relation to each other.This inexpensive little volume can be read in a couple of sittings and will give the reader the basics on one of the most important subjects in the history of thought in high style, with a minimum of effort.

A fantastic introduction to Greek philosophy
There are no doubt countless introductions to Greek philosophy, but amidst the vast sea of choices this book easily floats above the rest. Professor Cornford's writing is rare, he displays a clear mastery of the subject and conveys his vast knowledge in a manner that is refreshingly lucid.There is no complex language to unpack or needless detail to confuse his presentation of the material. Cornford approaches the subject by addressing the general themes associated with the Ionians, Socrates, Plato and Aristotle.This is a nice approach because the beginner, rather than being lost in detail, is given the "big picture" with which he can then orient the details of further reading. This is the greatest virtue of Cornford's book, and it is for that reason that I so highly recommend it.

Don't know much about history...Don't know much philosophy..
But I do know that I love the writings of F.M. Cornford.He explains the writings of Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle in such a way that it becomes entirely relevant to these days in which we live.Why are we the way weare?What were the beliefs of the ancient thinkers?Some of them were sotenacious in their beliefs that they were willing to give their lives forthem.As a searcher of truth, this book spoke to me.Explains the"laws of nature" vs. the "laws of state" and why theformer is more preferable than the latter.Cornford is a genius. ... Read more

Product Description
Socrates spent a lifetime analyzing ethical issues, and the "Euthyphro" finds him outside the court-house, still debating the nature of piety with an arrogant acquaintance. "The Apology" is both a robust rebuttal to the charges of impiety and corrupting young minds and a definitive defence of the philosopher's life. Later, condemned and imprisoned in the "Crito", Socrates counters the arguments of friends urging him to escape. And finally, in the "Phaedo", Plato shows him calmly confident in the face of death, skilfully arguing the case for the immortality of the soul. Such works, as Harold Tarrant explains in his introduction to this revised edition, are no longer regarded by scholars as direct transcriptions of real events. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (11)

Great Collection of Immortal Works
This magnificent compilation has four Plato writings:"Euthyphro," "Apology," "Crito," and "Phaedo." Though apparently early works and not as complex or philosophically influential as later ones, they are immensely important in portraying Socrates' trial and death. They are our clearest picture of the historical Socrates and would be invaluable for this alone. Indeed, I have read hundreds - perhaps thousands - of books, and this is one of my ten or so favorites, mostly because of how moving the depiction of the great man's last days is. The story of Socrates' Apology and last moments is part of world literature's very fabric, an immortal part of Western cultural heritage. Anyone who wants to learn about Socrates should start here. However, the works have great value even aside from this; a few have indeed questioned their historical veracity. This does not affect their philosophical, literary, and political worth, which is of the highest, making the book doubly essential.

"Euthyphro" is the least important work philosophically and probably not meant as historical, but it is still worthwhile. It examines the important "What is piety?" question and, like many Platonic dialogues, does not have anything like a definite conclusion. Some find this aspect frustrating, and it is certainly beguiling, but those who have experience with it come to love it. Like Socrates, Plato is after all too intelligent to give hard and fast answers; in all likelihood, he knows there are not any. What he does is far more important - lead us to think for ourselves and come to our own conclusions if we can. "Euthyphro" is a good, if relatively minor, example. It also introduces what philosophers call the Euthyphro Problem; here it is "Are good things good because they are loved by the gods, or are they loved by the gods because they are good?," but it has been restated in innumerable forms. This is in some ways an unrepresentative dialogue and thus an unfortunate one to begin the book, because it seems to prove the stereotype that philosophy obsesses over inane, probably unanswerable questions of no practical use. The Euthyphro Problem seems truly asinine as given - or, in our post-postmodern world, simply irrelevant. However, we can begin to see its importance when we replace "good" and "loved by the gods" with whatever seems most pressing. Such is after all the kind of thing Plato wanted; we are not supposed to read in narrow literal terms but use him as a starting point for our path to wisdom. This is an instructive example of how Plato has been immensely influential far beyond his apparent significance.

"Apology" is Plato's least philosophical and most unrepresentative work but arguably his most important and is among many readers' favorites, including mine. The book's title is misleading in that this is prose rather than dialogue; it purports to be Socrates' self-defense at his trial. It is historically priceless if so, as it gives his last public statements and some background about his life and the lead up to the trial. Even if not, it is of immense worth as a passionate, sound defense of individualism and free speech; its timeless evocation of these all-important concepts is forever associated with Socrates and the main reason he has been immortalized. The work also piercingly examines the often vast law/conscience gap and is thus an early higher law document. Finally, it is a sort of mini-dialogue in itself touching on and in several ways tying up classic Socrates/Plato themes like the nature of piety and goodness, responsibility toward the gods and the state, interpersonal relations, and life vs. death issues. It sums up Socrates and perhaps Plato better than any other work.

"Crito" is a possibly partly historical account of the title character visiting Socrates in jail to inform him that he is able to escape via bribe; Socrates famously says that he accepts his sentence and argues down contrary pleas. This gives incredible potential insight into Socrates, in many ways telling us more about his character and thought than a full biography ever could. Again, though, it transcends this philosophically and otherwise and is particularly relevant politically. It also examines the law/conscience gap and gives further background on Socrates but is notable above all as a very early example of the social contract theory of government. This is an astonishing example of how advanced Plato was, as the theory is generally considered to have been founded by Thomas Hobbes nearly a millennium later. Even more amazingly, it is put forth more clearly and persuasively here than perhaps anywhere else, making the dialogue essential for anyone interested in political theory.

"Phaedo" ostensibly details Socrates' last moments, including his last look at his wife and child, his last dialogue, his last words to friends, and his actual death. A large part of Socrates' image comes from this, and its potential historical value is inconceivable, though its historicity can easily be doubted since the work itself strongly suggests that Plato was not there. Even so, it is likely accurate in regard to the things that really matter and certainly a fine account of how it very well could have been. It is extremely moving; shot through with pathos, it is one of the most affecting things I have ever read. One can surely not read it without being overcome by emotion; I can hardly even think of it without misty eyes. Anyone who respects and admires this central Western civilization figure will be profoundly touched; his famous last words seem comic out of context but are very much otherwise here, telling us much about Socrates and moving us yet further. This would be one of the greatest works of all-time if it had no other aspect, but it is also a fine dialogue appropriately dealing mostly with death. Plato examines perennial questions like the soul's immortality and metempsychosis very thoroughly and thought-provokingly, and the conclusion - unsurprisingly, given the circumstances - has uncharacteristic certainty. It may not convince our cynical, empiricist, science-loving, twentieth century-surviving age, but the argument is certainly well-made and in many ways admirable. The dialogue touches on other important subjects also and is generally seen as the culmination of Plato's early, Socrates-centered thought.

It is important to realize that these four works were not originally published together, but the trial and death connection means they are often collected. There are many such editions, but unlike some, this has supplemental material and extra value in that many versions lack "Euthyphro."

The ever-important translation issue must also be kept in mind. It goes without saying that anyone who cares about intellectual issues, especially applied ones, must know Plato, as should anyone who wants to be even basically well-read. However, this is far easier said than done for most; he is so different from what now passes for literature, to say nothing of pop culture, that he is virtually inaccessible to general readers. Yet the importance of persevering cannot be overemphasized; the payoff is well worth the effort. As nearly always in such cases, reading him becomes far easier after the initial difficulty; no attentive reader will ever think Plato easy reading, but he is utterly absorbing once we get used to his style. He has a near-poetic beauty that all agree has never even been remotely approached in philosophy, and such mesmerizing prose is rare in any genre. His dialogues are an incredible form at once intellectually and aesthetically pleasing - an inspired combination that has perhaps never been bettered; many have appropriated it, but none have matched it. All this means that picking the right translation is probably more important with Plato than any other writer. For the average reader, the more recent, the better is generally true, though older translations like W. H. D. Rouse's and Benjamin Jowett's are still very accessible. The important thing is to read Plato in some form, and those who happen on a translation that does not work for them should keep trying until their mind opens in a truly new way - and once done, it will never close again.

Very Good
Received the book within three days of placing my order.I was extremely pleased with the prompt service.

Non Fiction
Socrates runs afoul of the authorities and others, and expounds upon the situation that he finds himself at the time, and in the process, you see something of the political and legal system at work in the process, and what some of his followers thought about the whole thing.

Really quite readable.

There are better translations
This is a descent translation of Plato, but not the best. It is an easy to understand translation, and there is nothing wrong with that. Tredennick and Tarrant (the translators of this book) have given us a nice translation that is definitely readable and, at times, enjoyable. There's a guy called W.H.D. Rouse that has some nice translations of Plato. They feel like literal translations, although I don't know Greek. I'm not sure if he translated "Euthyphro", but I know that he did the other 3 that are collected in this book (Apology, Crito, and Phaedo). Here is a link to the Rouse translation: Great Dialogues of Plato (Signet Classics)


I would suggest the Jowett translation for its elegance and beauty, but not for its accuracy. (You can actually read the Jowett translation online if you want to; it was done in the 19th century, so it is now a public domain text.) Here are some links to the Jowett translation: The Trial and Death of Socrates: Four Dialogues (Dover Thrift Editions) and Euthyphro, Apology, Crito, Phaedo (Great Books in Philosophy) and Selected Dialogues of Plato: The Benjamin Jowett Translation (Modern Library Classics).

If I were you I would get this book for the endnotes (it is an awfully cheap book after all). And I would get the Grube or Rouse translation as well, if for no other reason than to have a second source that you can go to if a particular passage in the Tredennick and Tarrant version confuses you. I have found that this is an invaluable tool to understand translated texts. However, the Tredennick/Tarrant translation uses such simple language that it might not be needed. If you are a philosophy student, or just someone who wants to fully understand and digest the text, I would keep an alternative translation in the holster when reading. (There are, of course, other translations that I haven't mentioned. I am no authority on Plato.)

Here's what is in the book (Tredennick/Tarrant):

- 21 page general introduction.

- 3 or 4 page introduction for "Euthyphro","Apology", and "Crito". There is a 14 page intro. for "Phaedo" (it is the longer and more complicated dialogue).

- 39 pages of endnotes

- 3 page bibliography on works about Socrates--his philosophy, his life, Plato's presentation of him, critical books on Socrates, etc.

- Index of principle names. (It's strange that they decided to do this type of index; it would have been much better if they would have put together a regular index in which the reader could look up certain words like "evil" or "justice" or "truth".

***Since I made this review, it's come to my attention that it is generally agreed upon that the Grube translations of Plato are the best. Here is a link to a Grube translation that contains all the dialogues that this Penguin book contains: Plato Five Dialogues: Euthyphro, Apology, Crito, Meno, Phaedo

And here is the complete works of Plato, edited by John Cooper, which contains the generally agreed upon best translations of Plato, including Grube of course. Plato Complete Works

The bottom line is get the Grube translation, and then get another one to use as a backup when you can't fully understand something in the Grube.

A decent anthology.
This is the kind of text used in those bread & butter Western civ. or survey philosophy courses. The translation is fine, but not particularly critical, literal, interpretive, or anything you can associate with a particular goal on translating. It's just the text. Maybe we could call it "pragmatic."

The notes are very nicely done, comfortably introducing the reader to a lot of important background concerning ancient Greek philosophy and the culture(s) which spawned it. I think this is a fine book for becoming acquainted with Plato and generating interest for further study.

What really to say about the content that other reviewers haven't already mentioned? The four books take us from outside the courthouse all the way through a post mortem wrap-up between the interlocutors. Justice, integrity, immortality of the soul, the afterlife... All of philosophy is just footnotes to this guy, after all. ... Read more

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What would happen if Socrates--yes, the Socrates of ancient Athens--suddenly showed up on the campus of a major university and enrolled in its divinity school?What would he think of human progress since his day?How would he react to our values? To our culture?And what would he think of Jesus?Peter Kreeft, Christian philosopher and longtime admirer of the historic Socrates, imagines the result. In this drama Socrates meets such fellow students as Bertha Broadmind, Thomas Keptic and Molly Mooney. Throughout, Kreeft weaves an intriguing web as he brings Socrates closer and closer to a meeting with Jesus. Here is a startling and provocative portrayal of reason in search of truth.In a new introduction to this revised edition, Kreeft also highlights the inspiration for this book and the key questions of truth and faith it addresses. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (27)

Worst argument ever!
Spoiler: "It's so ridiculous that it can't possibly be false."

That's right.In the end, Socrates converts to Christianity because the claims of Christianity are so absurd that nobody would possibly make them up.The sequel to this will probably be Socrates meets Mohamed, or Socrates meets Zeus (oh wait, the real Socrates already knew about Zeus and was executed for atheism).

It takes the author around 100 pages to end with the most ridiculous reason to believe a claim ever conceived.These pages are packed full of unreason and the worse misuse of Socrates I have ever read.

This book is an insult to the intelligence of anyone with an IQ greater than 10.

The real Socrates would not be happy
& if you're a true fan of him neither will you. I thought this would be an interesting read because I love Socrates and find religious debate fun. But this book is pathetic, it completely removes Plato's Socrates for someone with an incredible misunderstanding of the Socratic Method.

A Better title would have been Socrates and the strawman
What a terrible terrible book. The idea is great, the writing style is very good. The author totally blows it. Rather than take on the real challenges that face Christianity the author chooses to play the strawman game.

When defending Christianity rather than deal with substantive objections, the author chooses to place in the mouth of critics the most inane, uninformed arguments possible. This means that either as an author he did not have the chops to deal with truly difficult questions or he specifically choose strawman arguments. In either case there are much better books to read. If you want to read a good book on Christianity choose something by Yancy.

There are too many good books in the world and too little time. Doesn't waste your time on this one. "

A wonderful read
A wonderful read that not only gives you some insight about the life of Socrates, but also gives insight into the minds of today's academia. A great addition to any philosopher's library.

Didactic, Yet Sometimes Enlightening
Years ago, I read Kreeft's book "Between Heaven and Hell," a great idea that pitted C.S. Lewis, Aldous Huxley, and JFK against one another in debate after their untimely demises on the exact same day and year. In searching for that title, I came across "Socrates Meets Jesus."

I was surprised, even amused, by the didactic tone that reflects the 1980's Christian creative landscape. While Peretti was using angels and demons to portray spiritual ideas in fiction (not exactly a subtle approach), Kreeft worked on this title that shows a similar mindset. In other words, Kreeft uses a less sophisticated tone than he probably would've if he'd written this in our modern day. He would've relied more on deep thinking than on clever--or not so clever--wordplay, naming the university, Have-It University, instead of Harvard, and referring to another as Bussed-In, instead of Boston. These seem almost childish now, particularly in view of his serious yet readable attempt to challenge Christianity with the Socratic method of questioning.

That said, I enjoyed the book. We follow Socrates as he attends classes at Have-It, and we hear his reasoning for and against elements of the Biblical account. If you're looking for an exhaustive treatment of philosophy or theology, this is not it. If you're looking for concise and often lucid dialogue between liberal and conservative Christians, you'll find it here. There's no great delving into atheism or Darwinism, but there are passages that raise valid questions about the character of Jesus and his influence on the past two thousand years.

While Socrates "conversion" does seem somewhat sudden and easy, I do appreciate what Kreeft was trying to do here. This is a book worth mining for questions of ethics, philosophy, and religion. These questions, in keeping with the Socratic method, might have had more impact if left with possibilities still bouncing around in readers' heads instead of tacking on definitive answers from the great questioner himself. Instead, we get an entertaining, even enlightening book, that might resonate more with current readers if it were to be updated and revised. ... Read more

Product Description
One of the most influential thinkers in the history of the West was Socrates of Athens (469-399 BCE). Literally, thousands of books and other works of art have been devoted to him, yet his character and the tenets of his philosophy remain elusive. Even his contemporaries had very different impressions of him, and since he himself left no writings to posterity, we can only wonder: Who was this man really? What ideas and ideals can be truthfully associated with him? What is the basis for the extraordinary influence he has exerted throughout history?

Philosopher Luis E. Navia presents a compelling portrayal of Socrates in this very readable and well-researched book, which is both a biography of the man and an exploration of his ideas. Through a critical and documented study of the major ancient sources about Socrates--in the writings of Aristophanes, Xenophon, Plato, and Aristotle--Navia reconstructs a surprisingly consistent portrait of this enigmatic philosopher. He links Socrates' conviction that the unexamined life is not worth living with Immanuel Kant's later concept of an innate moral imperative as the only meaningful purpose of human existence. He highlights Socrates' unrelenting search for the essence and value of the soul as that aspect of his philosophical journey that animated and structured all his activities. Navia also considers Socrates' relationship with the Sophists, his stance vis-à-vis the religious beliefs and practices of his time, his view of the relationship between legality and morality, and the function of language in human life. Finally, he eloquently captures the Socratic legacy, which, more than twenty-four centuries after his death, is still so urgently relevant today.

Navia brings to life this perennially important philosopher, illuminating the relevance of his ideas for our modern world. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (5)

Superb study of Socrates
Luis Navia has written a wonderful account and analysis of the available ancient sources on Socrates and his philosophy and has so thoroughly explored his subject that I think this book will be the definitive source on Socrates for some time to come. What is even more noteworthy is how engaging this book is to read and Navia manages to accomplish his task in 260 pages of text. Highly recommended for anyone interested in Socrates or Ancient Greek history.

Socrates: A Life Examined
This new book on Socrates is unique in many respects. It addresses in a clear and convincing way practically all the major issues related to Socrates' life and philosophy. It is an indispensable book for anyone who wants to learn from the example and ideas of the great Greek philosopher.

brilliant Socratic theopathy
Navia is sophisticated enough as a philosopher to make a walk with Socrates sound like reading Kant without sitting down. I was impressed that the last two chapters dealt with religion in a wilt two power way that blended quite well with my reading of The Accursed Share by Georges Bataille, in which the feudal values of aristocrats are most famous for squandering whatever opportunities anyone else ever had in life.

The chapter on comedy is like a roast of Hugh Hefner on "The Aristocrats" DVD. Religion in pre-industrial society was much more like witchcraft than the religions which are currently practiced. People know different jokes, and yearly comedy contests in ancient Athens featured the current round of comments about whoever was getting a wide stance reputation. The taste of hemlock was just the finishing touches on the way freedom empire's gulag deal with those who have an evil eye for prying into things that most people cover over lightly with euphemisms.

It was truly great for Socrates to cash in some religious chips at the end by remembering which god he was supposed to sacrifice a rooster to for whatever the hemlock cured Socrates of wishing for. I think 2008 should be a great year for people to read this book because it might inspire them to see leaders that are shuffling off into the sunset as going to join a long line of other devils who thought we never had it so good as when everybody was willing to lend us money. I hope future undulations of cyberpower fertilized by sea slime will not rock our boat as much as Socrates got the goat of Athens.

The result is a wider-ranging study than most
Philosopher Luis E. Navia provides a fine biography of Socrates and reviews his philosophy in a title perfect for either advanced high school grades entering into basic philosophy studies, or college-level collections. It provides a critical, documented study of the major ancient sources about Socrates, blends in new research and critical analysis of his ideas and concepts, and considers Socrates in light of his times, history and culture. The result is a wider-ranging study than most, combining the best elements of biography with philosophical analysis and review.

A Welcomed Book
In this remarkable and welcomed book on Socrates, Luis E. Navia gives us what is very likely his final assessment of the historical nature of the character and, more importantly, the real philosophical thinking of this most significant but enigmatic of ancient thinkers. The result of decades of research and reflection, this book become and will remain, I think, one of the standard and necessary works on the subject, not only for the philosophy of Socrates, but for the very powerful relevance that his presence has exerted on the modern world. It is this presence, this legacy, which is of real importance. In a world that values material things more than spiritual ones, that highly prizes the ordinary and glorifies the second-rate, Navia understands clearly that it is ultimately the search for the soul, as Socrates understood it, that matters most of all. It is this search, and the possible discoveries along the way, that is the substance of this work. Highly recommended it for everybody! ... Read more

Product Description
A revisionist account of the most famoustrial and execution in Western civilization—one with great resonance for American societytoday.Socrates’ trial and death together form an iconic moment in Western civilization. In 399 BCE, the great philosopher stood before an Athenian jury on serious charges: impiety and “subverting the young men of the city.” The picture we have of it—created by his immediate followers, Plato and Xenophon, and perpetuated in countless works of literature and art ever since—is of a noble man putting his lips to the poisonous cup of hemlock, sentenced to death in a fit of folly by an ancient Athenian democracy already fighting for its own life. But an icon, an image, is not reality, and time has transmuted so many of the facts into historical fable.

Aware of these myths, Robin Waterfield has examined the actual Greek sources and presents here a new Socrates, in which he separates the legend from the man himself. As Waterfield recounts the story, the charges of impiety and corrupting the youth of Athens were already enough for a death sentence, but the prosecutors accused him of more. They asserted that Socrates was not just an atheist and the guru of a weird sect but also an elitist who surrounded himself with politically undesirable characters and had mentored those responsible for defeat in the Peloponnesian War. Their claims were not without substance, for Plato and Xenophon, among Socrates’ closest companions, had idolized him as students, while Alcibiades, the hawkish and notoriously self-serving general, had brought Athens to the brink of military disaster. In fact, as Waterfield perceptively shows through an engrossing historical narrative, there was a great deal of truth, from an Athenian perspective, in these charges.

The trial was, in part, a response to troubled times—Athens was reeling from a catastrophic war and undergoing turbulent social changes—and Socrates’ companions were unfortunately direct representatives of these troubles. Their words and actions, judiciously sifted and placed in proper context, not only serve to portray Socrates as a flesh-and-blood historical figure but also provide a good lens through which to explore both the trial and the general history of the period.

Ultimately, the study of these events and principal figures allows us to finally strip away the veneer that has for so long denied us glimpses of the real Socrates. Why Socrates Died is an illuminating, authoritative account of not only one of the defining periods of Western civilization but also of one of its most defining figures. 4 pages of illustrations ... Read more

Customer Reviews (6)

Fascinating light shed on the background of Socrates' trial
This book is highly recommended for anyone who, like me, has always questioned what the real story was behind Socates' trial and death.Not that the author claims to truly know the full story, but he does a thorough and compelling job of laying out the history preceding Socrates' death and how it was likely to have influenced Socrates' last days and led to his trial/etc.The book was a page turner, and I finished it with a much better understanding of the period than I began with.

A Book With a Far Greater Range
...than the title indicates. The author is tremendously intelligent, knowledgeable and thoughtful. His tone is scholarly but never dry. He's simply a great writer. The big surprise, however, is how much is not directly about Socrates at all, but about Athens. And not the iconic Athens of stately, silent, yellowing marble.

The famous are there along with the less known sons of "billionaire" families who helped bring down Socrates. These young rowdies, with way too much time on their hands, dressed and acted outlandishly, formed drinking clubs, went on destructive rampages, gambled and cruised the gymnasia and baths looking for boys. They liked girls too, and the stories of Alcibiades alone could explain why Athenian women were kept hidden.

And fortunately Alcibiades rates as many pages as his teacher and antithesis Socrates. Considered the handsomest man in Greece, Alcibiades was apparently a rich, reckless, narcissistic satyr. Once Socrates' lover, and later a general, he learned rhetoric from the older man and used it to become the idol of the Greek world. Before he was murdered he seems to have double-crossed at least twice everyone who trusted him. Having a hearty sexual appetite, he seduced men and women alike and was even reputed to have had orgies with his mother and sisters; fleeing Athens, he sought safety in Sparta, but then had to light out again after he impregnated the king's wife. Obviously the book is not dull.

In this Athens Waterfield finds unexpected parallels with our world today: As wealth increases, so does the stress of empire. The population is bitterly divided by competing interests, and struggles erupt between elites and democrats, rich and poor, young and old, farmers and businessmen. Then there's the religious strife of 2,000 cults in a city of 350,000 and the seemingly endless war between Sparta and Athens that spreads to Sicily and Asia Minor as both sides insanely try to goad the Persian Empire to join in. These Greeks are not models of classical good sense and rational action, and Alcibiades seems to have had a hand in everything that went wrong.

Readability is gained partly at the expense of footnotes; there are none -- although the end notes and the extensive bibliography are good. There's also a useful glossary for those unfamiliar with Greek.

This is above all a book of ideas, and believe me, it will leave you with plenty to think about.

Athenian Politics in the Fifth Century B.C.
Those fascinated by ancient Athenian politics and culture should enjoy this rather wide-ranging book. Unfortunately for me, it was not at all what I expected. I was anticipating a book focussing on Socrates - his life and accomplishments - culminating is his trial and execution. Instead, the author discusses Socrates mainly in the first chapter and last two. The rest is devoted primarily to Athenian politics, its legal system, the Peloponnesian War and its aftermath as well as other important individuals - particularly Alcibiades for whom much more space has been devoted than that devoted to Socrates. Also, the Peloponnesian War is discussed from a political viewpoint and not one that focuses on military equipment, tactics and battle strategies. However, if one is careful not to lose sight of the book's title, then perhaps one can ultimately get a richer perspective on the reasons for Socrates' trial and execution; in my case, I'm afraid that I got lost along the way. The writing style is certainly clear and very authoritative. Despite my experience in reading this book, I am giving it four stars because I feel that it does contribute important political information on that period of Athenian history.

He died for us?
He was good and righteous.He was unjustly charged.He resisted opportunities to easily flee.He was wrongfully convicted.

He accepted his sentence and died for us.

The trial and execution of Jesus, circa 30 CE.

The trial and execution of Socrates, circa 399 BCE, according to Robin Waterfield.

In Why Socrates Died, Waterfield gives us a masterful summary of the events and causes leading to the execution of Socrates in 399 BCE.In terms of its pure historical treatment and connecting that historical treatment with the philosophical disputes at issue I easily rank this book on par with I.F. Stone's similar work on the execution of Socrates called The Trial of Socrates.

But this book rises above the pack in illuminating the deeper mysteries of the Socrates story.

As alluded at the beginning of this review, the similarities between Socrates' death and that of Jesus are numerous and compelling.Because the philosopher died and the New Testament, written in Greek, arose in a Greek sensitivie millieu, one can even wonder the extent to which the Socrates story served as template for the later gospel account.

Aware of these issues, Waterfield plunges to the heart of the matter when he tells the story of the Thargelion sacrifice (still practiced at the time of the trial) when two prisoners were recruited as stand ins for the sins of Athens and either flogged or executed before the city gates.

Born according to tradition on the 6th of Thargelia (the month of the Thargelion sacrifice), Socrates may have considered himself a candidate for such sacrifice.

Such notions would not have been disputed by a populace that found Socrates' politics at odds with then current Athenian values.Signficantly, Socrates had opened supported a dictatorship that had just been overthrown four years prior to his trial.

Such notions also would have been consistent with Judean practice which substituted a goat (or scapegoat) for the prisoners as the totem sacrifice (in testament to the ostensible similarity of then existing religous practices).

Whether you find the Thargelion/New Testament connections persuasive, this book remains a first rate treatment of the trial and execution of Socrates and excellent food for thought.

Excellent, Enjoyable History
I've always enjoyed reading about the ancient Greek world, and when I picked up this book I couldn't put it down. I have an interest in the subject but am no expert on it, yet I found this book so skillfully worded and explained that I had no trouble following it. Waterfield seemlessly presents a complex story brimful of fascinating characters and events and ties it all together to paint a vivid portrait of the political environmnet in which Socrates' execution took place. For the modern reader without much background knowledge of this world, Socrates' death has always been so puzzling. How can this greatest of philosophers and much-admired man have been found guilty of corrupting youth and then executed? Waterfield's book seeks to answer that question. Chapter by chapter he depicts the characters and events which are pertinent to the story, building his case beautifully. This book would probably appeal to people who don't know much about Socrates already, but it would also appeal to people like me who have read a lot about Socrates but still need an expert to help us put the whole story in context. ... Read more